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Topic: More sampled choir fun!

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  1. #1
    Senior Member Silh's Avatar
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    More sampled choir fun!

    Thought I'd throw this up, yet another experiment with EWQLSC. While you can get the Latin pronunciation fairly decent, there are enough artifacts in the samples and how they are pieced together that I doubt I'd want to use the choirs as a primary vocal source for anything involving complex phrasing. Listening to each part solo, the flaws are quite evident; all singing together they're a bit more hidden.

    Needs a lot of cleaning up still, but this was done mainly as an exercise to learn the system, so I didn't spend a huge amount of effort on the mixing or such. The piano also has no pedalling, as per the old MIDI file everything came from. Overall, it's okay sounding enough if you don't listen too closely enough I guess. :P

    Benedictus by Andrea Klouse
    -- Matt Wong

  2. #2
    Senior Member Tom_Davis's Avatar
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    Re: More sampled choir fun!

    Silh, are you using Finale or Sibelius?

  3. #3
    Senior Member Silh's Avatar
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    Re: More sampled choir fun!

    I'm using a combination of Noteworthy Composer for notation entry, and then importing into Reaper afterwards to host the instruments and final MIDI tweaking, so unfortunately I can't offer any advice with any Finale or Sibelius specific concerns. While Noteworthy is a notation program, it is very very basic, and I've only stuck with it since I'm so used to how quickly I can enter notes in with it that I've hesitated on switching to anything else.
    -- Matt Wong

  4. #4
    Senior Member tedvanya's Avatar
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    Re: More sampled choir fun!

    Matt, allow me to put in my 1c worth.
    You and others are using your samples very well. As a one time conductor of many small and large choirs, boys, girls,women and men and mixed, I can say that you guys are too demanding. This Benedictus is a good example to my point. It sounds very good, despite of your warning not to listen too closely. The fact, that you can distinctly hear "benedictus" and you are not restricted to aaa or uuu as I am, makes a huge difference for the better.
    Let's face it, you will never have a "real" choir, but what you have IS great. I bet if you spend as much time in mixing and mastering as you did on the phrasing, you would have a wonderful piece.
    I have no budget for your program. If you wish to get rid of it, send it to me, please. {Just kidding}.
    Lovely work, be happy. Listening too close is for musicologists, not for musicians or lovers of music. For example, I love some of the "mistakes" of a live performance, slurred pronunciations of choirs are OK in my book....

    Ted

  5. #5
    Senior Member Tom_Davis's Avatar
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    Re: More sampled choir fun!

    Ted,

    Amen to that. I often find myself leaving in some small glitches - they tend, in my, opinion, to more accurately emulate what I often hear standing on the podium in front of a live choir.

  6. #6
    Senior Member Silh's Avatar
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    Re: More sampled choir fun!

    One of the things I was constantly fiddling with while modifying the note on/off timings was trying to avoid a robotic sound by not having all the parts line up exactly... yet avoiding making the choir sound sloppy either (especially the ending S sounds, which are VERY loud by default).

    It's weird when you're blurring the line between real and unreal... you don't want to make things sound too perfect because... a real choir isn't perfect! Yet, you don't want it to sound unnatural as something a choir wouldn't (be able to) produce either... fun times .

    I think the artifacts that stood out to me the most while listening to the parts solo are ones such as weird transitions between the samples, and sometimes the consonant you ask for just doesn't sound like it (eg. N sounding like M at certain ranges) in that particular sample. With the entire choir it all blends together and sounds quite choir-like, since the N, for example, comes out well enough with the soprano and alto, even if the tenor's N sounds like an M. It does work in our favor as you guys were talking about, since it adds that element of imperfection.

    Just hope you don't need the tenors only singing that N at some point.

    Again, nothing that ruins it for me, the library does what it's meant to do really. Vocal synthesis has been an on-and-off interest of mine for years, and looking at how libraries such as the Vocaloid ones (which I've never used myself) have developed over the years, listening to the new Realivox Blue... I just find it fascinating how sounds are put together to create language. It'll never be the real thing, but for my hobbyist pursuits, it's good enough.
    -- Matt Wong

  7. #7

    Re: More sampled choir fun!

    Hi Silh,

    I didn't know the piece, nor the composer, but now, I'm quite impressed both by the beauty of the music and by the way you've put it into samples to realise such a lovely performance. You did a hell of a job. Masterful! The way you've handled the choir samples is one of the best I've heard in a long time.

    Thanks for sharing en revealing this music!

    Max

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