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Topic: Put MaestroTools in the first place

  1. #1

    Put MaestroTools in the first place

    Hi everybody,

    if we make MTools process incoming MIDI-data of the keyboard/controllers AT FIRST and record ITS OUTPUT into the sequencer rather than recording the controlling data and send it to GS via MTools, we have two advantages:

    1. We don\'t have to care about setting the appropriate channels/ports-modes in MTools according to the current arrangement BEFORE playing back as intended.

    2. Recording the final MIDI solves the problem, that ALT-patches get triggered with swapped up/down-bowing occasionally, depending on the position you start the playback.

    In other words: We then always record and edit the final result rather than unprocessed notes, keyswitches and sustain-pedal-data, which I prefer a lot.

    To setup your system that way, you have to install MTools on the SEQUENCER-machine (in case you own a 2-machine-setup). You might have to disable your incoming-data\'s-MIDI-port in your sequencer-app, before choosing this very port within MTools as \"MIDI-Input\". MTools first ch./port would then serve as \"global-setup\" for the MIDI you are recording and would not continue altering your playback. The sequencer then records from the virtual MarbleSound-port 1 instead of the port the keyboard is plugged in. GS should be set to any port(s) your sequencer is sending its MIDI to (deselect MarbleSound drivers/ports in GS-settings!).

    I am not sure, if your personal MIDI-drivers/sequencer-setup allows to go for this configuration, but it should be worth a try. Since Logic-Audio has problems to start properly with the MarbleSound-Out-port enabled, I have programmed an environment-layer for Logic-Audio providing all MTools-computations before the \"Sequencer Input\"-object: LEG-patches with pedal-action and ALT-modes controlled with keyswitches A0-B0. This layer behaves like MTools in Mono-mode without the \"sustain-pedal-option\" enabled and is currently restricted to this behaviour. Just be patient a little while, since I sent my work to Gary first and want him to decide about its distribution: I don\'t want to hurt any legal aspect with it in its current form and do not intend to compete with the MarbleSound-programming. So be nice and give Gary a chance to cool down for a moment and relish the great NAMM-success before thinking about making this little Logic-Audio-helper available to you.

    [This message has been edited by Roman Beilharz (edited 01-23-2002).]

  2. #2

    Re: Put MaestroTools in the first place

    Hi Roman-
    Good idea and well thought out. I\'d considered making that standard practice with the help file (putting Maestro first in the chain). Now that you\'ve talked about it and got me thinking, maybe I\'ll still do it yet. There\'s a couple problems with it that have held me back, though it solves some problems too. Some of the things don\'t seem like as big issues as I once thought, so I won\'t bother mentioning them. But Logic is definitely a headache still. Sigh. Logic never wants to play fair with all the other midi kids on the playground. You probably know already that Logic grabs every single midi device on the system by default, and claims it as its own. It even grabs the Maestro drivers, and I\'ve said in the help how to work around that (in the win.ini file you set the MarbleSound input ports to 0). But if Maestro is running in front of Logic in the chain, it gets even worse. Headaches@! With the default win.ini logic settings, if you don\'t start Logic before Maestro then Maestro won\'t be able to open any input ports(Logic has \'em all) and would be useless. If you started Maestro first, then Maestro could open its midi inputs this time, but once you started Logic it would be impossible to change the Maestro inputs, because again Logic has all of them it could get. Changing the Win.ini Logic settings to disable Loigc\'s use of the standard hardware midi input devices doesn\'t seem like much of a solution because now Logic wouldn\'t be able to change the inputs it was using, plus when not using Maestro it could make a lot of sense for Logic to have access to those devices. Logic is the bane of auxiliary midi programs!
    You may have the best answer to Logic\'s bad behavior with midi devices. Let it have it\'s way and use the Logic environment rather than Maestro in this case! There may be a small latency sacrifice(I\'m not sure if it\'s significant), but the ease of use would be incredibly better. Feel free to ask me any questions, or let me know if I can help in some points - jeff@marblesound.com. I\'d let you have access to the midi processing code, but I have reservations about it being publicly viewable (copyable) in script form in Logic. There may be other concerns too, but those are more for Gary. I\'ll talk to him about it. Anyway, good luck.

  3. #3

    Re: Put MaestroTools in the first place

    By the way, you should be able to use Maestro with Logic, when doing it in the standard way (running after Logic in the midi chain). The help file describes it in Troubleshooting Logic if you\'d like to see it exactly - regarding the changes to the Win.ini file. I\'ve used Logic with maestro with GS before, though I\'m certainly far from well versed in Logic - I\'ve only verified basic playback and recording functions while using Maestro.
    The one thing I found out more recently is that when using Maestro and Logic and GS, you MUST start Logic after Gigastudio and shut it down before closing GS. Otherwise you risk a system lockup. Again this is due to Logic grabbing every midi device - this time the Nemesys Midiouts (even though with the standard Maestro configuration it won\'t use those). For anyone else reading with a different sequencer, this is specific to Logic only. I\'ll be trying to address this in a future release of Maestro, one way or another.

  4. #4

    Re: Put MaestroTools in the first place


    Any idea if the new version of Logic (5.0?) plays any better?


  5. #5

    Re: Put MaestroTools in the first place

    Just a note on Roman\'s suggestion, if you\'re like me, you use DP or another sequencer on a Mac, and control MT/GS on a PC. If you have a multi-port midi interface on the PC, you can still put MT in the chain before the Mac sequencer, although you may get unacceptable MIDI latency. Just divide your PC hardware MIDI input ports between going to MT and going direct to GS. Route the MT output to a MIDI output that goes to the Mac rather than to the GS input ports, and then go from the Mac sequencer output back to the PC input ports that are direct to GS. Follow?

  6. #6

    Re: Put MaestroTools in the first place

    Hi Jubal, I haven\'t tried Logic 5.0 so I\'m not sure, but my guess is that things won\'t change with the midi handling. It\'s only a guess though - we\'ll have to wait til the release to know more.

    For everyone, I\'m all in favor of tweaking, plus I think it\'s great that people are using Maestro in ways that better suit their work style. Still, I highly recommend new users first to set up Maestro according to the help file instructions, since I believe it\'s the easiest way to set it up properly. But once you\'ve got it working, this is all good to try out (only the setup shown in the help is supported though). Have fun!

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