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Topic: Our Nemesis

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  1. #1

    Our Nemesis

    Of interest, Scarbee\'s report \"No problem. modulation and pitchbend (on track 1)does not affect track 2 at all\", seems to indicate that a previously reported bug, i.e. propagation of vibrato and tremolo to all loaded instruments, rather than intrinsic to Gigastudio, could be related to some particular settings. Given the practical relevance of the problem, I feel that Nemesys should give an authoritative answer in this Forum.
    Otherwise, we could start to meditate on the meaning of Nemesis in ancient Greek: \"a deserved, endless punishment coming from above\"

    Giorgio


  2. #2

    Re: Our Nemesis

    hehheh good one Giorgio...

    I fooled around with this problem, and with Cubase, I get the problem,...but its hard to define exactly what happens. It doesn\'t occur as soon as I impliment Vibrato on a track, the track to which I\'m not applying vibrato has to be playing back atleaast one sample.....AND THEN WHILE vibrato is applied to the first track THEN the track I don\'t want vibrato applied to has to playback a second sample. This is when the track I don\'t want vibrato on gets vibrato. Its failry odd.

    ------------------
    Really...I am an Idiot

  3. #3

    Re: Our Nemesis

    >>,...but its hard to define exactly what happens.<<

    nevertheless, could you try again and rephrase your findings. I didn\'t get it.

  4. #4

    Re: Our Nemesis

    Test to see if my password works. My account seems to have gone away. If this works I will respond on NemeSys\'s behalf to the question.

  5. #5

    Re: Our Nemesis

    Giorgio,

    This message is from NemeSys.

    I have followed some of your threads regarding tremolo and vibrato being incorrectly propogated to multiple instruments.

    Our tests have shown that tremolo and vibrato are correctly applied to individual instruments on different midi channels. Here are some of the ways we verified the results.

    First we took two instruments from the GM 500
    set, let say A.gig and B.gig. We then took all the modulation out of both instruments, all layers, and all regions. IMPORTANT: you need to make sure that you select ALL the regions and ALL the layers when you want a global setting to effect everything. Then we set up both instruments using LFO1 frequency of 2, and depth of 1200. We tried both cases of controller - Ext Mod Wheel and Ext/Int Mod Wheel. We then loaded a.gig to channel 1 and b.gig to channel two. Driving the sampler directly from the MIDI controller and driving the sampler via a sequencer (Cakewalk Pro 9) yielded the same results: Using the mod wheel on channel 1 only effects the LF01 on A.gig and using the mod wheel on Channel only effects the LFO1 on B.gig.

    We repeated the test using LFO3 - same results.

    In setting up this test, there is only one thing that tripped me up. Because I was dealing with a multilayered instruments, when changing the parameters I forgot to select all the layers. Consequently, my edits were only applied to \'half\' the instrument. Also if you are using \"Ext/Int Mod Wheel\" setting then if the \'Internal depth\' is nonzero then you will hear some modulation, regardless of where you external mod wheel is set.

    We feel strongly that sampler is behaving properly.
    The fact that Scarbee, a very knowledable giga user, is reporting similar results should also give you confidence.

    I hope this helps in some way.

    Regards,
    Joe (NemeSys)

  6. #6

    Re: Our Nemesis

    Hey JBibbo,

    I\'ve never run into this problem, but I\'d be interested if someone could theorise what factors outside of Gigastudio might cause this phenomenon to appear, as there have been more than a couple of users who report vibrato appearing unintentionally on channels where it wasn\'t (apparently) routed.

    There are so many options, maybe making suggestions will help via a process of elimination.

    We should also be mindful of the fact that certain bugs can be \'conditional\' on certain factors which are not obviously related to the fault (the moon being in the 7th house, your mouse pointing to 3 O\'clock, two identical gigs being loaded in different slots in the same performance)

    One example I can think of is where you try and assign a sound to a channel and the wrong sound is assigned.

    Say you have ten sounds loaded (but not necessarily assigned), one of which is \'bell voice\' and another which is \'funk drums\'. Even though bell voice is loaded, you forget and double click on your destination channel, find its directory and double click to load \'bell voice\'. Immediately \'funk drums\' appears in the channel slot to which you were assigning \'bell voice\'.

    Wierd, but you then remember that you already had \'bell voice\' loaded, so you detach the \'funk drum\' patch from the channel, grab the \'bell voice\' gig from the loaded instruments pane and drag and drop it onto its channel slot. Immediately the \'funk drums\' gig appears in that channel.

    Wierd, and at this stage you\'re hoping that you didn\'t somehow save the \'funk drums\' instrument as the first instrument in the \'bell voice\' gig. So you unload \'bell voice\' from memory, double click on the channel slot, navigate to the directory with \'bell voice\' in it and double click on \'Bell voice\'. Voila! Bell voice is correctly assigned.

    Wierd.

    My point is that if I told you that loading an already loaded gig into an extra channel makes the wrong gig load, you could test for days and not find it. It\'s only happened to me twice in two months. And it\'s happened to more than one other user.

    Maybe we can make suggestions to the guys with the vibrato problems to help eliminate all possible sources outside Giga.


    [This message has been edited by Chadwick (edited 02-02-2001).]

    [This message has been edited by Chadwick (edited 02-02-2001).]

  7. #7

    Re: Our Nemesis

    ok here goes.

    I open Giga and Cubase


    I load French Horn Sustain LOOP from QLB Brass into Port one Channel one. It has vibrato attached to the Mod Wheel.


    I load Turbo Analog Sawtooth into Port 1 channel 2 (which also has Vibrato attached to the Mod Wheel).


    I draw in a not at C4 for 4 bars on CHANNEL 2(sawtooth)


    I draw in a note at E4 for 2 bars on CHANNEL 1 (Come on...the French horn...pay attention )


    Both notes set to start at the same time


    Set the sequencer to start playing a bar before the notes are to start


    Select Channel 1 on Cubase


    Hit Play


    When the notes start I kick the Mod Wheel up to full vibrato


    when the French Horn Stops playing, the Turbo Analog Sawtooth sound keeps playing and you can tell it has Full vibrato

    HOWEVER If I do all the above but set the Sawtooth sound to begin playing BEFORE the French horn, Vibrato isn\'t applied to it.


    It happens without the Sequencer as well (I need to use the hold/sustain controller)


    Of course there are alot more variations of this bug, but this is one simple way it can be reproduced


    I\'ll write it in a bug writing form if ya guys want, I used to be a software tester for about 10 years.

    BTW I\'m using a Roland XP-30 as my controller. I\'m pretty possitive it has nothing to do with this tho, since it doesn\'t record Mod wheel info to any cahnnel but the one that is selected.

    ------------------
    Really...I am an Idiot

    [This message has been edited by KingIdiot (edited 02-02-2001).]

  8. #8

    Re: Our Nemesis

    Hi Jbibbo,
    What is not entirely clear in your post is whether your experiments were performed by simultaneously playing back a series of notes on both channels. As pointed out by others, if you have vibrato/tremolo applied to some notes on channel 1 and simultaneously play a series of notes on channel 2 with vibrato/tremolo set to zero, vibrato/tremolo will be added to some notes on channel 2, depending on the time relationship to note on/off on channel 1.
    Please try this and let us know about the results.
    Thank you,
    Giorgio

  9. #9

    Re: Our Nemesis

    I repeat this report problem I posted on the 12-26-2000 10:31 AM related to the \"tremolo\" madness. Apparently most customers has notice that problem, one way or the other. I hate tremolo since that is happening...
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    I love GStudio, and now, I could not live without it, but...I read some complaints about the unwanted problem in GStudio, that happens to me also. Need help, or is that a bug?
    Suddenly, with no reason, ALL MIDI CHANNELS at GS start an unwanted & nasty vibrato, sometimes a light one, and other -to many- times, a heavy one. I tried GS in a \"fresh\" computer just for playback, with nothing else installed on it but GS, and the vibrato-trembling comes up very often. Obviously I tried that, after I was using GS with Logic as a sequencer and thought it might be something to do with it. I disabled all midi messages except notes, and the same thing happened. So I tried GSs in new, \"fresh\" computer. No sequencer. No Mod messages from my keyboard, but tremolo, yes.

    I discover something though: in the midi control page on the GStudio, the first fader is assigned by default to \"Mod\". This fader, \"by default\" -nobody knows why- is leveled up a bit in every midi channel with no reason. Even if I, patiently, brought down every fader of every channel of every port (64 total) down, saved as default start page, and worked from then on, the same annoying unwanted tremolo-vibrato-mod comes up whenever you are in the middle of your inspiration, with no reason. ¡Who likes that!

    Any ideas?

    Thanks for your help,

    arcusa

    Note: I have downloaded the last version available of GStudio and I own a Dell Pentium III 1GH with 526 RAM; SoundScape Mixtreme card and Logic Audio.



  10. #10

    Re: Our Nemesis

    Chadwick,

    I am not quite sure what suggestions to make past the ones I already posted. However after reading Giorgio and KingIdiot\'s responses, I am thinking that maybe our tests are not identical, so I will give another shot.

    BTW, if you can find a deterministic case on your instrument loading example, I would be very interested. I am all to familiar with \'conditional problems\', but sometimes it is possible to understand the \'conditions\' required, such that we can easily reproduce the problems. Any help you can give me would be appreciated. Thanks.

    Giorgio/KingIdiot,

    I am out of the office today, but I will rerun the tests trying to match KingIdiot case Monday morning. I don\'t have the QL brass, so hopefully it is not instrument specific. I will also use CWP9. The easiest way to make sure I am hearing what you are hearing, and to make sure it is not a system specific problem is for someone who is having the problem to create two simple .gig (maybe with a single sample), and a .mid file. You could then zip them up and send us your test case. KingIdiot, if you do file a bug report with regards to this issue please send it care of myself, Joe Bibbo. Thank you

    I will report back later tomorrow.

    Regards,
    Joe (NemeSys)

    PS Arcusa, the midi control surface is set to values that by definition of the MMA MIDI 1.0 specification are the reset state. If you would like the default state to be something else, all you have to do is set the control surface to the desired value and choose the \'Save as default performance\' under the File menu.

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