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Topic: Really struggling with 1st Violins

  1. #1

    Really struggling with 1st Violins

    Is it only me .... ?

    I have been playing around with GOS for more than two months now, and I have to say that pretty much like anybody else I guess, I have been blown away by the incredible quality of this library, all the thought that has been put behind it etc...

    But I would like to share some of my struggles with y\'all in order to see if there could be some tricks that I haven\'t tried yet that could help me to achieve the results that I was expecting when I originally purchased GOS.

    My biggest problem is with the 1st violins Long Bow instruments, but this could apply with a few others as well...

    Does anyone hear some sort of \"phasey\" almost \"synth-y\" quality to the violins or is it just my ears ? Go ahead: Load 1st Violins SUS V EXP LEG, don\'t EQ or add anything to it, pan it dead center and hit F# above C above middle C (F#3 by most standards) Even if you play with the MOD wheel there is a certain \" deadness \" and \" thiness \" to that note that I just can\'t really describe but that is nonetheless very present to my ears. It is almost like the woody quality of the instruments is not projecting or something....

    I have heard students violin players sound more \"live\" and vibrant than that sometimes, just playing that same F#, I am afraid to say.

    Somehow there is a richness and a fulness that I can\'t seem to be able to get with specially the held notes on SUS patches.

    I have spend quite a number of hours trying to EQ, pan, double, slide, and more tricks in the MIDI book, and I have been able to somwhat \"get away \" with some of it, but still, I was under the impression that sampling several hundred of thousands of dollars of instruments with all the bells and whistles in recording gear would somehow yield to a more lively sound or more natural if you will.

    I can already guess that some of you will say:
    Go hire the London Phil\' ( or your favorite city if you are not from London [img]images/icons/wink.gif[/img] ) if you want a live orchestra. I cannot agree more.
    But until the day I\'ll have that kind of budget, I am trying to get the best out of my sampler.

    So I was just curious: has anyone tried to recreate a piece from the repertoire with GOS for instance and get the same kind of tone than the original ? I am sort of hearing the London Mozart Players for instance on the symphony Nº40 if that can help the description of what I am trying to convey here....
    I am not talking about performance and phrasing. I am talking about richness, woody-ness in the sound.

    I believe that a library such as GOS requires a lot of time to get to be able to use its full potential. So to make my long story short:
    What are you guys doing to squeeze some life out of those samples ?

    (or again is it just me [img]images/icons/confused.gif[/img] )
    Please share.

  2. #2

    Re: Really struggling with 1st Violins

    You\'re not the only one, I also find some sustained patches with mod wheel crosfades in GOS very synth like and dead. Especialy when they are in the mix.
    I ussualy try to blend them with AO solo strings, and I also like to use velocity patches, and use expression on my mod wheel.


  3. #3

    Re: Really struggling with 1st Violins

    Hi Maestro Tomasio,

    yes, indeed, my first imprssion of the 1st EXP LEG patches had been, that the EXP-layering was perhaps introducing some phase-interference between the samples of the 4 velocity-layers, that are not switched but crossfaded into one another at the EXP-instruments. But since the velocity-switched-patches (1st LEG or plain 1st) sounded similar to me, I dropped that idea and I am quite sure now, that phasing is not the problem. Besides that, the 1st SusV EXP LEG (REL)-patch is eating up polyphonic resources like a monster.

    I rarely use the 1st SusV EXP (LEG REL)\'s

    My current standard-setup uses the 1st Grand Sustains EXP REL for vibrant sustained notes, while the 1st SusNV EXP LEG REL\'s (they have only 2 velocity layers and save voices) give me the non-vibrant and fast legato-lines (they LEG, you now [img]images/icons/wink.gif[/img] ). For medium tempo-legato phrases the Grand Sustaines do a perfect job, since the REL-samples are masking the transitions from note to note well and naturally for my ears - without LEGing.

    Happy LEGging (no jet-LEG, please)


  4. #4

    Re: Really struggling with 1st Violins

    I have struggled with the \"phasy\" sound of the 1st Violins, as well. I mostly use \"1st Vln Grand Sus REL\". They have a lovely, thick sound to them! I love them!

  5. #5

    Re: Really struggling with 1st Violins

    Originally posted by lex:
    ...and I also like to use velocity patches, and use expression on my mod wheel.

    <font size=\"2\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">hmmm... could you ellaborate on that ?

    Well I start to feel a little better about my hearing now ( for a minute I also thought there could be something wrong with my audio setup )
    Maybe Gary ( or anybody with some inside knowledge of GOS would like to comment on that ? Again, I am not trying to diminish in any way the qualities of GOS, I am just curious to know why it seems like some of the sustain patches are apparently not sonically up to par with the rest of the library, especially the violins but also on some of the Celli for instance.

    BTW, yes the Grand sustain patches sound to my ear much more alive than the regular sus V Thanks for the suggetsions.

  6. #6

    Re: Really struggling with 1st Violins


    Well nothing fancy really...I just asign my mod wheel to expression CC, and use velocity switch sustained patches...like in the old days.. [img]images/icons/wink.gif[/img]


  7. #7
    Join Date
    Oct 2000
    Orcas Island

    Re: Really struggling with 1st Violins

    Originally posted by Tomas:
    Maybe Gary (or anybody with some inside knowledge of GOS would like to comment on that?)
    <font size=\"2\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">Tomas,

    Thanks for expressing your concerns. We\'ll investigate this thoroughly. Everyone hears differently and we haven\'t heard it the way you have heard it. If anyone else has any feedback, please pass it on. If necessary, we can certainly address this in the next update.

    In the meantime, can you give Tom or I a call and we\'ll explore this further.

    Gary Garritan

  8. #8

    Re: Really struggling with 1st Violins


    I\'m new around here, but I\'m not new to your posts. For the last couple of weeks i\'ve been going through the archives looking at replies you\'ve made concerning your product. For what it\'s worth, I\'m very impressed with how you respond to quality issues. Seldom do I see such pride of ownership. With so many other products i see the individuals who can improve things as being out of reach or closed to suggestions, unlike yourself.

    Anyway, I have been considering for some time now a purchase of Miroslav or GOS. I\'m going with GOS.

    Best regards,

  9. #9

    Re: Really struggling with 1st Violins

    DJ, I am backing you up !

    Gary, you da man ! regardless of my issue with some of those patches.

    I will try to give you or Tom a call as some time tomorrow if I can find a minute to sit down.

    In the mean time I would still like to read more comments on this ( including from people who have no idea of what I am talking about [img]images/icons/rolleyes.gif[/img] ) so maybe we can try to see what it is that some of us are hearing; I have to admit that I can\'t quite put my finger on what it is that bothers me with certain patches. Phasy and lifless would be the first words to come to mind but it could sound different to other ears, hence my post.

    Thanks again for supporting your product with so much integrity.

  10. #10

    Re: Really struggling with 1st Violins

    Tomas, there are a a few thiings probably contributing to the sound you\'re hearing. Over time I\'ve found a little bit of EQ dip in the 4-6k range helps a bit on the violing sustain samples.

    Its a strange thing as with speaking to Gary, I found out the detaches and sustain notes were recorded on the same day (almost the same time). So I think it has to do with the players not over exagerating the vibrato, as they seem to have done in the detaches.

    I\'ve been workign with Gary on a couple of things that will show up in an update soon. Stuff that will add a whole new realm to GOS. Itssomething I\'d been toying around with for a looooong while, and time is just about opening up to get really involved in it.

    There are also other people working to enhance the variety of sounds you can get in GOS, so things will definitely get cool.

    In the mean time, I might also suggest some other options if the EQ doesn\'t do it for you.

    Pick up Dan Dean\'s solo strings, it helps bring some focus on a lead player/first chair when layered with GOS. This sucker works with just about any string library, and allows for \"looser\" phrasing with legato melodies.

    Sonic Implants is a great library, you might want to consider adding it to your arrsenal if you have the cash. Having both GOS and SI gives me jsut about every option I want. I\'m definietly not one sided with either library. Both are excelent and both have different takes on the string sound.

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