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Topic: velocity abruptness

  1. #1

    velocity abruptness

    While the quality of the GOS lite samples is great, there is one cause of frustration while playing the samples from the keyboard. The velocity jump is rather abrupt. This is especially frustrating when you are playing faster passages from a keyboard controller whose keys dont have that much of sensitivity (even good ones like Edirol dont).
    is there some way to tweak this?
    any help appreciated.

  2. #2

    Re: velocity abruptness


    The answer will depend upon the specific instrument(s). Which ones are causing the difficulty?


  3. #3

    Re: velocity abruptness

    Which sampler do you use? If it is giga you can improve the transition\'s smoothness through agradual low-pass filtering and other tweakings, but giga\'s editor is so awkward for this kind of job... Kontakt is more interesting if you really want to tweak, but if you want to make a really good job the task is tedious -but worth it imo. Itherwise an average tweaking can improve the playability. Let me know if you want more details. Au revoir!

  4. #4

    Re: velocity abruptness

    thanks for both the replies

    I use Giga studio and I am having this problem with pretty much all samples, but most annoying is the 1st and second violins and violas. I wonder why the samples had to be made discrete like this. Afterall they are great quality, so a smoother mapping wouldnt have hurt much in the sound quality as much as the lack of it affects playability.

    Any suggestions are appreciated ...
    When for example I am playing a series of notes pianissimo, even a slight extra pressure (for some velocities) results in a much bigger jump in sound. Maybe the plus side is this will force me to learn to very delicately control the keys, but then if I go to a real piano or a weighetd action synth, its a different ball game. Its like learning to drive a broken car and then jumping to a BMW. I dont know if there is a point.


  5. #5

    Re: velocity abruptness

    Originally posted by tremolo:
    The velocity jump is rather abrupt... is there some way to tweak this?
    <font size=\"2\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">This might not be something you\'re interested in, but I find it very helpful to use external tools to help with such situations. Rather than tweaking the sampler, for example, I use the feature of my MIDI patch bay (an old MX-8) to compress the velocity range of my controller and/or offset it as needed. Take that for whatever it\'s worth!

  6. #6

    Re: velocity abruptness

    I was going to say the same thing. There\'s several options for this type manipulation of MIDI Data before it enters the computer. I use an A-90 and it has built in velocity curves which can help with this kind of thing. Especially if your natural playing velocity is right on a break. That\'s a problem developers face - where is the natural velocity break. I for one don\'t have tons of problems with GOS, but I can\'t play the Gigapiano to save my life. IT seems like there should be some way to smooth this abrupt jump out. But until there is a way in the sampler, I use velocity curves. For the Giga Piano, if I want a hard hitting piano Rock type sound, I\'ll use a curve that features the heavy notes. And I\'ll use the inverse for a soft piece. Sure I\'m pretty much stuck with 1 velocity layer, but at least it\'s not jumping out of nowhere!

    Ultimately I think this is a Giga problem. I\'ve seen this problem with a lot of giga libraries, and I think Tascam is responsible to make it more programmable. Granted, we all know \"the big one\" is going to hit before Giga 3.0 comes out, so I\'m looking to switch to a sampler that has more friendly programming. Some of the older Roland 760 stuff was way more programmable, which made that format great. I can\'t tell you how they did it, but so many of those libraries just sounded great, and worked great, with very smooth transisitons. So I blame Giga.

  7. #7

    Re: velocity abruptness


    Sorry for the delay in replying. Even though you said that you were having difficulty with pretty much everything I’m assuming that you are talking about velocity split instruments and not EXP instruments which use mod wheel crossfades. Velocity split instruments (in any library) have a certain amount of contrast between layers. The fewer the layers, the greater the contrast – generally speaking. It’s not just a matter of volume differences, it is also differences in timbre between samples of separate dynamic levels. The lite library has a maximum of 2 velocity layers (half that of GOS), hence the contrasts. I suspect that your system’s velocity response curve is emphasizing the contrast between layers somewhat.

    Now, what can be done to help?

    1. Check to see if your keyboard has a selection of alternate velocity curves and give them a try, if available.

    2. Use your sequencing program, if possible, to limit the velocity range of the data arriving from your keyboard. I use Logic and it has a very convenient way of limiting velocity values.

    3. (Depending upon the particular instrument) you may find it useful to try the following approach: Use the upper layer for accented bow strokes and the lower layer for everything else. Or, conversely, play most everything at the upper velocity level and use the lower for only the softest passages.

    4. Modify the programming in the Giga editor to either change the velocity curves or add “vertical” crossfades between velocity layers. Changing curves is relatively easy, adding crossfades between layers is more difficult. If you decide to dig into the editor to make these changes and need assistance call Gary Garritan and he can put you in touch with me directly to help you through it.

    Interestingly, it is easier to program “vertical” velocity crossfades in Kontakt than in Giga (at least when modifying existing programming). Hope this helps.


  8. #8

    Re: velocity abruptness


    Thanks so much for the detailed reply...I will be working on this someime soon and will contact you if I have a doubt...

  9. #9

    Re: velocity abruptness

    Not trying to go against the grain here, but I always struggle with the opposite problem.

    When I slam down fff I want the samples to knock the speaker cones into the next zip code!

    I had to go in and fine tune allot of velocity stuff in the Giga editor because I layered ALL the styles to with their related attacks.

    Foot pedals control which attack layers fire (for the attack series of samples and the sus layers too) and how long the releases are (for the sus series of samples), while velocity controls the rest.

    Had to repeat this editing and stacking for all the strings (Basses, Cellis, Violas, Violins)

    AND get this: I then stack (link) all 4 ports like this:

    Violins port 1
    Violas port 2
    Cellis port 3
    Basses port 4

    Again they ARE layered (all 4 ports linked) together!

    You should see the CPU/voice meter on Giga! Press one key - BAMM!! 753 voices!! [img]images/icons/shocked.gif[/img] Ok, ok - I know, but you get the idea.

    And yet I *STILL* can never seem to make the fff attacks crack the wall plaster.

    *Sigh* [img]images/icons/rolleyes.gif[/img] Hmmm maybe 24 bit. [img]images/icons/grin.gif[/img]

    Michael Scott [img]images/icons/shocked.gif[/img]

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