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Topic: ALT bowing , legato , sus pedal confusion......

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  1. #1

    ALT bowing , legato , sus pedal confusion......

    Now I have GPO I had to dig out my previously
    never used before sustain pedal [img]images/icons/tongue.gif[/img]

    I have been experimenting with the sustain pedal
    modes in the GPO player , I assume \'No sustain/
    but midi switch\' is the mode for alternate bowing
    of solo strings, right ?

    I thought because the player only alows one sustain pedal mode to be selected , if I wanted
    to use legato and alternating bowing in a composition I would need to have one GPO instance
    set for legato and another instance for sustain pedal midi switch .

    I tried this , but whatever mode I set in one instance gets set in the other instance too .

    Am I missing something here [img]images/icons/confused.gif[/img]

  2. #2

    Re: ALT bowing , legato , sus pedal confusion......

    No, I\'ve heard this from someone else, the pedal options are global. I think Gary and crew are working on this?

    Rick

  3. #3

    Re: ALT bowing , legato , sus pedal confusion......

    Yes, the settings are global. You can not have two instances with different pedal configuration. It is mentioned in the manual that this is a limitation of the current Kontakt Player, so I assume this is not a bug, but a decission taken at designing time.

    What I\'ve discovered yesterday is that you can not save the configuration of the kontakt player with the song in Cubase (as usual). I mean, if you do a piano song with normal sustain mode, and then you load other song where you expected to find the the pedal as controller, you will find the sustain.

    I wish GPO team - NI team take a look at this issue, as I find it a big limitaion.

  4. #4

    Re: ALT bowing , legato , sus pedal confusion......

    It is my unerstanding that you cannot use normal sustain and legato/alt bowing in the same instance of GPO. However, in your project, you should be able to use the alternate sustain option in another instance of GPO. Therefore, use one instance of GPO for your normal sustain instruments, and the second instance of GPO for instruments that use legato, alt bowing.

  5. #5

    Re: ALT bowing , legato , sus pedal confusion......

    Originally posted by kstevege:
    It is my unerstanding that you cannot use normal sustain and legato/alt bowing in the same instance of GPO. However, in your project, you should be able to use the alternate sustain option in another instance of GPO. Therefore, use one instance of GPO for your normal sustain instruments, and the second instance of GPO for instruments that use legato, alt bowing.
    <font size=\"2\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">No this can\'t be done ! as I already said ...
    \"I tried this , but whatever mode I set in one instance gets set in the other instance too .\"

    I guess the thing to do for now is @ the mixdown
    stage, render the instuments that share the legato sustain pedal mode down to their own audio file then change the mode to midi switch and and
    render the alternating bow violins to an audio file then render the two audio files and everything else down to a single audio file .

  6. #6

    Re: ALT bowing , legato , sus pedal confusion......

    hang on a second. The solo strings do not use the normal sustain. The midi controller setting does the bow alternate and if you hold the pedal down I think the legato kicks in...

    The pedal mode is universal for all instances, but there are only a handful of instruments that use the sustain mode... of coarse one instrument is the piano, but not the solo strings.

    Tom or Gary, correct me if I\'m wrong.

  7. #7

    Re: ALT bowing , legato , sus pedal confusion......

    Magpie,

    OK, let me see if I can sort this out for you. All strings are designed to use the second pedal mode – “No sustain/sostenuto operation, but midi controller” – no exceptions. This is true of all woodwinds and brass as well.

    The pedal mode setting is global for all active instances of GPO. This is an internal issue with Kontakt. We hope Native Instruments will make this function independent between instances at some point in the future but that remains to be seen. Because of this limitation the library has been designed to function primarily in the second pedal mode. This is essential for the proper simultaneous real-time functioning of all string, woodwinds, and brass.

    The following separate string section instruments use the sustain pedal to switch the legato mode on and off: Sustain/short, tremolos, half trills, whole trills. Exceptions: The short bows, pizz and the KS instruments. The short bows have automatically alternating bow strokes (no switching necessary) and the KS instruments omit the legato mode due to technical limitations in the Kontakt architecture. The switching function is irrelevant in the pizz instruments. Again, the proper pedal mode for all string instruments is the second pedal mode even if legato switching isn’t active in a particular instrument.

    The solo string instruments all use the sustain pedal for two functions: legato mode and alternating bow strokes. Alternating bow strokes are accomplished by alternating the sustain pedal positions – first bow stroke, pedal up; following bow stroke, pedal down; next bow stroke, pedal up; etc. Legato mode applies if several notes are played in connected fashion while holding the sustain pedal in its depressed position, thus simulating the sound of sequencial notes played on the same bow stroke.

    The woodwinds and brass use the sustain pedal to switch between tongued (pedal up) and slurred (pedal down) articulations. Once again, second pedal mode.

    Very few GPO instruments use the first pedal mode – the standard sustain/sostenuto setting. Piano is one of them. If you intend to combine piano with other orchestration then it’s best to render the piano part to audio at some point prior to the final mix, with standard pedal mode activated while recording the separate piano part. Piano can be used in real-time with the other instruments while in the second pedal mode but the sustain pedal data will be ignored in the piano part. Virtually all other instruments in your orchestration will require the second pedal mode for proper operation so it’s most convenient to render the piano part in the majority of situations if you need to hear the pedaling information while you are composing.

    Tom

  8. #8

    Re: ALT bowing , legato , sus pedal confusion......

    Okay, that\'s one post that goes straight to the printer and then added to the manual!

    Thanks a lot Tom!

    /Rico

  9. #9

    Re: ALT bowing , legato , sus pedal confusion......

    Thank you for the very helpful post Tom [img]images/icons/cool.gif[/img]

    My understanding now from what you said is that
    the second mode is used for both Legato and alternate bowing of the solo strings, it is only a matter of how the pedal is used in combination with keyboard playing .

  10. #10

    Re: ALT bowing , legato , sus pedal confusion......

    Magpie,

    Correct. Don’t forget that you can also edit the data, after the fact, in your sequencer if something isn’t played accurately enough (or is simply unplayable).

    Tom

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