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Topic: GPO: other controllers to add performance expression?

  1. #1

    GPO: other controllers to add performance expression?

    just picked up a copy of GPO the other day and was surprised that that aftertouch was not implemented--at least for vibrato anyway (still going thru the library to see if it\'s being implemented somewhere)...furthermore my controller keyboard is equiped with polyphonic aftertouch (aka poly-pressure)( [img]images/icons/tongue.gif[/img] ) and it would be a wonderfull tool to control vibrato on individual notes too...

    also i was surprised that cc#11, expression, can not be used as a controller either...i have such an expression pedal and it works beautifully with my other synths for swells and so forth...

    unless i\'m missing something i think these controller (and others) should be looked at for the next revision (or is it a limitation of the kontakt player?)to create more expressive passages...



  2. #2

    Re: GPO: other controllers to add performance expression?

    I don\'t know what controller you are using, but mine can output any cc# for any contol mechanism I have or plug in. A lot of keyboards will do this. I just assign the pedal to cc#1 instead of #11.

    GPO uses a very different programming scheme than what most people are used to, apparently. I have always programmed my orchestral sounds in a similar way for many years (which is probably why I was never satisfied with the programming of libraries I\'ve owned. I thought I was alone in wanting features like this, but along comes GPO after all this time!).

    I would like to see poly aftertouch programmed to do something in a future update....

  3. #3

    Re: GPO: other controllers to add performance expression?

    add me in the list of the aftertouch request!

  4. #4

    Re: GPO: other controllers to add performance expression?

    Originally posted by nexus:
    I don\'t know what controller you are using, but mine can output any cc# for any contol
    <font size=\"2\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">i have lots! i own an access virus and use it as a control surface with my sequencer (logic 5.5.1 pc)...i suppose i could always tranform cc#11 to something that GPO recognizes but i find there\'s too little controls to affect the preformance with realtime playing...

    i guess in the 7 years i\'ve had my home studio i\'ve gotten so use to a workflow that i realy miss having these controls handy...oh well...

  5. #5

    Re: GPO: other controllers to add performance expression?


    The function of cc#11 in the MIDI Standard is to control expressive volume shaping within a track. In GPO this function takes place with mod wheel data (cc#1) and is actually more expressive than standard cc#11 because it also controls simultaneous dynamic timbre changes from the same controller. If you want to use your continuous controller foot pedal then I strongly urge you to use Logic’s real-time transform abilities in the Logic Environment to change all incoming cc#11 data to cc#1. This will give you control of volume/dynamic timbre from the foot pedal – best of both worlds. Users of wind controllers can accomplish a similar thing in Logic’s Environment. The Environment is one of my favorite features in Logic and the one I will miss most when I eventually have to move to another sequencing platform on PC. Other sequencers have real-time data transform functions but not with the wide-open flexibility of Logic. A good example would be Roman Beilharz’ Virtual MaestroTools for GOS – no other sequencer could have come close to accomplishing that tour-de-force. Opening that environment up and taking a look at it will take your breath away; it’s like looking at a schematic of a 747.

    On the subject of aftertouch: We considered all available controllers for standard MIDI keyboards and found aftertouch too crude and unpredictable with most keyboard controllers at our disposal. This was especially true at the low end of the data spectrum where subtle control was close to impossible. That’s why we rejected this as a controller for GPO. Also, variable control of vibrato requires the use of LFOs which always come off as sounding somewhat artificial. With a couple of exceptions we chose to use only samples with real vibratos for the initial release of GPO. The option to use artificial vibrato with all non-vibrato instruments is a possibility for the future – the controller for this function will be determined at that time and user’s suggestions will be taken into consideration.

    Also, don’t overlook the possibility of loading GPO into Kontakt 1.5 and modifying the programming to suit your personal needs/desires. The opportunities for custom modifications are limitless (and they can be saved).

    We made the decision to break with standard MIDI conventions to give the average user of a MIDI keyboard (who doesn’t ordinarily have a second continuous volume pedal) the maximum real-time expressive control and ease of use. The downside is that people, like yourself, will need to make adjustments in the way you work to take full advantage of GPO. Fortunately, using tools like the Logic Environment (and Kontakt 1.5, if you like) can keep those adjustments to a minimum.


  6. #6

    Re: GPO: other controllers to add performance expression?

    thanks for the info tom...

    i already figured i\'d have to transform the controller with logic--that\'s a very minor issue--but aftertouch control is still very desirable to me--heck i could even transform that so i guess it\'s now a mute point (although i still like pitch bending with the aftertouch)...so i\'ll forge ahead a create some enviroments...

    now to only save enough cash to get the full blown version of kontakt [img]images/icons/frown.gif[/img]

    thnx again...

  7. #7

    Re: GPO: other controllers to add performance expression?


    <<<the controller for this function will be determined at that time and user’s suggestions will be taken into consideration.>>>

    How about making it programmable and letting us decide which controller to assign to what function? While I too can and do transform in Cubase (my mod ctrlr is crap on my Roland but it has a nice volume slider so CC#7 = CC#1 on my rig), there may be folks out there who don\'t have the capability of re-programming hardware controller output. I\'m sure it\'s way more coding than it\'s worth but it\'s a thought anyway...

    BTW, thanks for being so available on this board. Nothing better than support from the developer. I pretty much just search on posts from you when I want to know something.


  8. #8

    Re: GPO: other controllers to add performance expression?


    This could be considered for a future version of the player but the structure of the player is limited to allowing re-assignment for just a single, specific controller. The obvious choice would be to give assignment flexibility to the mod wheel controller. The downside is that doing so would break some controller assignments for users who have created music using the present player since the controller assignments would need to be reshuffled in order to make this change, due to the architecture of the player. Perhaps this is more trouble than it’s worth when many users can A) already easily do a real-time re-assign in their hardware controllers and sequencers or B) do the re-assign in the full version of Kontakt and save the instruments with the custom changes.


  9. #9

    Re: GPO: other controllers to add performance expression?

    Agreed. The fact that we can do so much already with so little in terms of performance and articulation from controllers is a tribute to your programming skills. I am amazed as I learn to perfect my use of the mod wheel. It\'s pretty intuitive even for a ham fisted drummer. Never could play the keyboard with both hands anyway!

    Thanks again, I really do appreciate you taking the time with me. Keep the good stuff coming!

  10. #10

    Re: GPO: other controllers to add performance expression?

    A major thing this discussion does not take into account is the fact that almost all Roland keyboards and midi controllers available now (not including some older, out of production comtrollers) do NOT have a standard MOD wheel. The \"stick\" on my Roland A-37 is terrible for the MOD wheel programming in GPO due to the short \"throw\" and spring loaded return to zero on the MOD control. The A-37 is currently the \"flagship\" of the Roland controller line (Still being made) and it cannot re-assign the expression pedal to MOD wheel internally.
    Since I primarily use GPO instruments live, I have to play it through a host (I use Forte) that can re-map the MIDI controllers to what I desire.
    It would be very helpful if GPO could just have a menu in the options box that would allow you to pick one or more CC numbers to control the MOD wheel.

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