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Topic: Orchestral "Punch"

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  1. #1
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location
    Hamburg, Germany
    Posts
    175

    Orchestral "Punch"

    Hi there,

    I received GPO 3 days ago and try to figure out all of the possibilities it gives me (and there seem to be lots of them).

    So far - and this should not be mistaken as a complain - I see a lack of \"punch\" to the strings and horns. It seems that the short bows are a bit too sweet, I would like them to produce more \"bow-sound\" for powerful staccatos. Same goes for the horns, the overlay ff is sounding really good, but it is not well suited for powerful unison staccato notes - my opinion (might be wrong [img]images/icons/smile.gif[/img] ).

    I understand that the library can produce some really beautiful AND powerful sounds and I listened to all the demos available before I decided to go with GPO (instead of EWQL Silver) and I am not disappointed - although I couldn\'t test all of the sounds yet.

    So why am I posting this? I am new to GPO and would like to here some suggestions. What do you use when you are in need for some adventureous, hollywood-like sounds? Are there any tips and tricks to get more out of GPO. Do you have other libraries to fill in the needs for what GPO doesn\'t support yet?

    Last but not least let me tell you that this seems to be a cool forum. Most products are just as good as the community and the support. Both seem to be excellent for GPO.

    Thanks for sharing,

    Malte

  2. #2
    Moderator
    Join Date
    Jun 2000
    Location
    Chandler, Arizona
    Posts
    4,045

    Re: Orchestral "Punch"

    Attack is controlled by velocity. The strings bite more with higher velocities. Make sure your MIDI controller is putting out velocities up to 127. All attacks are controlled this way.

    GPO will get you 90% of the way for most sounds and for many this may be all they need. Once you learn the library, then you can look where you need other sounds. SAM horns are a good compliment. I also layer in some QLSO Silver in the brass parts. I wish they used filtering on Silver for the staccato samples as the transitions from layer to layer is quite abrupt.

  3. #3
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location
    Hamburg, Germany
    Posts
    175

    Re: Orchestral "Punch"

    Originally posted by Haydn:
    Attack is controlled by velocity. The strings bite more with higher velocities. Make sure your MIDI controller is putting out velocities up to 127. All attacks are controlled this way.
    <font size=\"2\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">Thank you Haydn. Yep, I put the velocity to 127, but I wish it would bite a bit more. I guess I\'ll have to learn what can be done with GPO and what can\'t and - as you suggested - check how I can fill in the gaps, that GPO (and all other libraries) surely has, to my needs. I don\'t think that I buy EWQLSO Silver to compliment GPO. It seems to have it\'s own needs for \"gap-filling\" and I believe that in the end I will have to buy even more special libraries (like SAM Horns). On the other hand ... I still wait for more demos from silver to check what can be done. I wish that the producers of such great libraries would offer some 15 to 30-day trials (many of us could actually download 2GB in a few hours).

    Thanks,

    Malte

  4. #4

    Re: Orchestral "Punch"

    You could also try running some instruments through a compressor for more punch.

    It may not seem natural for orchestral sounds but then again, there\'s nothing natural about samples either really. [img]images/icons/smile.gif[/img]

  5. #5

    Re: Orchestral "Punch"

    Originally posted by Scott Cairns:
    You could also try running some instruments through a compressor for more punch.

    It may not seem natural for orchestral sounds but then again, there\'s nothing natural about samples either really. [img]images/icons/smile.gif[/img]
    <font size=\"2\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">Also, there\'s not much natural about classical music recording in general. If you\'re looking for that favorite sound from a favorite CD, then you may well be baselining your expectations on a final product that has seen several layers of doctoring.

    It usually starts with close-mic\'ing of certain instruments. With classic German microphones, this close proximity lends some \"warmth\" (i.e. constructive distortion through tube saturation) to individual instruments, leading to a sound that has a \"broader\" bottom end and more \"heft\" in a mix. Secondarily, you\'ll sometimes see mic\'ing that includes sectional setups along with individual close-mic\'ing. Then the mixing engineer will take both mic positions in the final mix and \"blend\" them to get a \"bigger\" sound. There are also some tricks that will be used to get a solo instrument to \"speak up\" in a hall - by routing the soloists mic to a speaker in the back of the hall to drive the natural reverb resonance. (EastWest did this for some of their solo instrument samples)

    When the final mix is being produced, everything from EQs to tube saturation to artificial reverb (even high-dollar convolution rigs) are all brought to bear on an ensemble mix to get everything to \"gel\" together. People will try to say that a juiced mix is only the province of film scoring, but I know by personal experience it happens on plenty of classical music recordings as well.

    Some libraries relieve you of having to make engineering decisions, by recording saturated sectional samples in big halls and juiced solo voices with speaker-driven reverb. GPO gives you the individual instruments untainted in their native environment to build up your ensemble from a musical context, *not* a pre-determined engineering context. The musical context is just the first step in building a mix that stands up to today\'s \"sensibilities\". So, get comfy with checking out saturation plug-ins (I would recommend \"RubyTube\" as a freebie starter) and convolvers for microphone and acoustic space modeling (check SIR thread here for more on that part of the equation, or Voxengo Pristine Space for a near-real-time alternative that doesn\'t cost an arm and a leg). Good luck.

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