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Topic: Timpani Rolls

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  1. #1

    Timpani Rolls

    Are there any timpani rolls like the bass and snare drum? (I\'m guessing not but it seems like a shame) And what is a Side drum?

  2. #2
    Senior Member Styxx's Avatar
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    Re: Timpani Rolls

    NOUN: A small double-headed drum having one or more wires or cords stretched across the bottom head to increase reverberation. Also called side drum.
    Historically, the name \"side drum\" discribed a drum that hung off the side of the player like those of the revolutionary and civil war armies. I have an original 19th century marching bass drum that is rope tuned and was used by such armies. Today, drummers and percussionist refer to any drum that sits on the floor or mounts on a bracket a \"side drum\". The term is loosly used today where as ten to twenty years ago specific names where given to drums on the set such as; Bass drum(sometimes refered to as a \"floor bass\"), Ride or rack tom(s) and Floor tom. Most are called side drums.
    As for timpani \"rolls\" that\'s a possibility for those composers that do not play percussion. I personally use a Roland SPD20 percussion pad controller and play the tempos in myself. The timpani samples in the Garritan are nice to work with. It\'s about time someone realized that there are two distinct sounds produced by the left and right hands. Garritan gives you that flavor which captures the orchestral sound of percussion best! I think having samples of rolls on the timpani would make your composition sound too static.

  3. #3
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    Re: Timpani Rolls

    I think the way that GPO has positioned the timpani on the keyboard is simple and brilliant! As a former timpanist it\'s quite natural to think of things with left-hand, right-hand and having the range of the GPO timpani as they are works for me. That said, I will confess to going into the MIDI \"piano-roll\" view of Cubase and cleaning up some \"rolls\" occasionally.

    I agree that a builtin roll would be way too static. (I have that in an orchestra expansion board on my Korg Triton Studio and have never used it because it sounds way too artificial.)

    my $0.02 -- kev

  4. #4

    Re: Timpani Rolls

    Timpani roll articulations are bad. Why would you want to use the same roll as everybody else? It\'s much more realistic, expressive, and versatile to have a keyboard that you can just hammer away onto, with left- and right-hand timpani hits, as in the GPO timpani samples.

    It\'s not as hard as you might think, and even if you DO mess up, you can also edit the midi data after.

    It\'s even more FUN sequencing the timpani crescendo/diminuendo rolls by yourself.

    - jUnk

  5. #5
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    Re: Timpani Rolls

    eaglehvac

    Tom did a short write-up on Basic Timpani Rolls a short while ago:

    \"The timpani have the left and right hand samples mapped with a two octave separation between them. For example, D1 is the left hand sample and D3 is the right hand sample; E1 is the left hand sample and E3 is the right hand sample, etc. Approach the roll as if you were playing with a mallet in each hand. Use a single finger of each hand, of course, to strike the keys. Left, right, left, right, left, right, etc. playing the same pitch (D1, D3, D1, D3, D1, D3, etc.). There is considerable velocity sensitivity to the timpani. Experiment playing with low velocities doing a crescendo to the maximum velocities. You will hear the mallet hitting the heads much harder at high velocities.

    To play a fast roll requires some manual dexterity. Fast, continuous rolls can be very challenging. If necessary, I would suggest slowing the tempo setting in your sequencer temporarily to make it easier to record a consistent roll. Once the (slower) roll is recorded return to the original tempo. You may even wish to record some MIDI roll \"templates\" that can be pasted where needed for long rolls. For standard hits or rapidly changing dynamic rolls you will be better served performing them to suit the situation.

    Remember that all data can be edited after the fact if needed. Adjustments to velocity and note placement can yield almost any desired result.\"

    Tom

  6. #6

    Re: Timpani Rolls

    Hehe, I remember when I first got GPO. After 2 days of playing around I wrote exactely the same suggestion to the forums like eaglehvac did. [img]images/icons/smile.gif[/img]

    I can only recommend to try what Gary (and Tom) suggested: Play the roll yourself! After doing it once, I was hooked! I love every single timpani roll I create in GPO. They sound so incredibly convincing.

    The important thing is to tweak the veliocities (and eventually edit or trim some wrong notes). This was the key to greater realism for me.

  7. #7

    Re: Timpani Rolls

    The L-R mallets programming is nice, in fact almost all percussion I\'ve taken a look on has it (SAM Timpani, Sonic Implants orchestral precussion, gtown...) but doesn\'t mean that timpani rolls should not be included for lazy ppl or ppl who has the mouse as his main input device (I belong to both groups [img]images/icons/wink.gif[/img] )
    When I saw they were not there i supposed it was due to space issues: bass drum or snare roll = 1 sample, timpani rolls = 12 samples.
    In my opinion it would be nice to see them included in a update

  8. #8

    Re: Timpani Rolls

    Well I\'m from both camps. I play half of my rolls live and I use Timp. rolls for the other half. It\'s really fun to be a camilion [img]images/icons/smile.gif[/img]

    I have found the London Orchestral Perc. to be a very helpful add on to GPO. LOP does have several timp rolls. If you use them straight they can sound pretty static, but a good way to get around it is by playing the first hit with a one-shot (so you have say D1 on a one shot and also with the roll sample). This gives you the attack of a real player playing a roll out of nowhere. Then I layer a single one shot for the very last hit as well. Again, you get the sound of a player actually playing the LAST note of the roll. This goes a LONG way to keep the rolls sounding convincing. The rolls themselves are usually under other orchestra stuff so it\'s not a problem to be the same sound - after all a timpani roll can only sound so many different ways.

    It might be nice if GPO had some rolls added, but come on, $249 - what are you homeless beggers? Take what you get and supplement!


    J-

  9. #9

    Re: Timpani Rolls

    Well I have never liked \'pre-packaged\' percussion rolls of any kind and always play my rolls on the keyboard, having perfected the technique way back when I was using a Mirage.

    It\'s always more difficult to get them to fit right than just playing it in, and you will not find yourself locked in to the roll\'s tempo. You can easily find yourself composing your music to fit the many rolls you have in your library!

    Also, a little uneveness in the roll by doing it yourself makes it sound more realistic. A percussion pad might be great for this, but they\'ve been too expensive for someone like me who is not a drummer!

  10. #10
    Senior Member Styxx's Avatar
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    Re: Timpani Rolls

    As a percussionist the only rolls I like prepacked are cinnamon rolls! I can\'t use the keyboard. Too many years of feeling it with the sticks. May not come out as accurate at first but like you say, the editing makes it all work out. I think that\'s the best part of this whole virtual orchestration jive cosmic debris. If you make a mistake...you have a chance to make it right right away!
    Like the imortal Buddy Rich once said to me after a local concert; \"Play them like you love \'em\"!

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