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Topic: Instrument combinations in GPO

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  1. #1

    Instrument combinations in GPO

    I was wondering if there\'s some sort of information on what combinations are used to get certain sounds. I\'ve been playing around with it and am happy with some of my choices, but others I feel there must be a better way. On top of that, I\'ve heard some really phenomenal sounds come out of GPO and some really crappy ones . . . which leads me to assume that some people just don\'t know how to put the ensembles together right.

    I was listening to the GPO Audition stuff, and specifically, the horns sounded great . . . and on top of that, there were 3 distint timbres created in the demo. How was that done? Mostly, I\'ve only been able to get a great sound when I play both ensembles and both overlays all at fortissimo. [img]images/icons/smile.gif[/img]

    I thought that it would be helpful for people to get started if there were some more information on this kind of stuff.

  2. #2

    Re: Instrument combinations in GPO

    Well, for starters, make sure that if you\'re building ensembles to only use the ensemble instruments and not the solo mixed with the ensemble as you will get phasing problems.

    Next, make sure that the instruments you are playing with sound nice together, lay down some kind of block chord and assign the low, mid and high note to three different instruments and see how they sound playing at the same time (that\'s what I do). I\'m brand new to orchestrating and arranging (although I\'ve been writing for piano for a long time, so I truely can\'t give you more help then that.

    One last thing I noticed, with the above test, especially in the cellos the ensemble instruments have very different sounds, some are very \'wooden\' and some are \'cleaner\' (sorry I don\'t know the technical descriptions) and some of these will sound good with other instruments and some will not.

  3. #3

    Re: Instrument combinations in GPO

    Originally posted by folk prophet:

    I was listening to the GPO Audition stuff, and specifically, the horns sounded great . . . and on top of that, there were 3 distint timbres created in the demo. How was that done?
    <font size=\"2\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">That\'s a good question -- Gary ought to post at the very least the exact instruments used there (and a midi file would be even more helpful).

    The more information the better, and this would be a way to sell even more GPO. How about it, Gary? Let\'s see details on how all the demos were constructed!

  4. #4

    Re: Instrument combinations in GPO

    I\'m just getting into GPO...but seems to be that using the brass overlays to bring in some brassy timbre is part of the trick too.

  5. #5

    Re: Instrument combinations in GPO

    Originally posted by dewdman42:
    I\'m just getting into GPO...but seems to be that using the brass overlays to bring in some brassy timbre is part of the trick too.
    <font size=\"2\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">That\'s what I\'ve heard too. But the complete application of that I\'m not sure on. Obviously (I think) if you want a fortissimo brassy sound, use the overlay. But what about for softer parts. Do you still use the overlay for softer \'brassy\' sounds??? Or would that sound funny?

    I mean, obviously one should use one\'s ear as best as possible, but to do that precisely, one must be thoroughly familiar with the sounds and timbres that a horn (or other instrument) can make. I have a fairly good ear for that. But it\'s certainly not exhaustive. If there were some guidelines it would help me out. And there are (likely) many who have no idea what a horn should sound like and such info would be VERY useful to them.

  6. #6

    Re: Instrument combinations in GPO

    Originally posted by Alan Lastufka:
    Well, for starters, make sure that if you\'re building ensembles to only use the ensemble instruments and not the solo mixed with the ensemble as you will get phasing problems.

    Next, make sure that the instruments you are playing with sound nice together, lay down some kind of block chord and assign the low, mid and high note to three different instruments and see how they sound playing at the same time (that\'s what I do). I\'m brand new to orchestrating and arranging (although I\'ve been writing for piano for a long time, so I truely can\'t give you more help then that.

    One last thing I noticed, with the above test, especially in the cellos the ensemble instruments have very different sounds, some are very \'wooden\' and some are \'cleaner\' (sorry I don\'t know the technical descriptions) and some of these will sound good with other instruments and some will not.
    <font size=\"2\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">Why would solo instruments cause phasing problems? Aren\'t they seperately recorded? I\'ve mixed in the solo instruments and it doesn\'t sound like there\'s phasing problems to me. Granted, I may not have a perfect ear for that. Hmmm.

    Oh, and another question I have that\'s related.

    If you have two trumpet parts (for example) both playing ff, and you, accordingly, want the overlay for both of them, then do you just stick in two notes in the overlay track to match up to the seperate 2 notes played by the 2 tmpt ensemble parts? Does that question make sense. Then, what do you do if the parts come together in unison for one or more notes? Wouldn\'t the sound suddenly be weakened because suddenly there\'s only on overlay note instead of two? (Granted, it\'s probably not an issue, because the unison of the two ensembles would be stronger anyhow. But it\'s something I thought of so I\'m throwing it out.) [img]images/icons/smile.gif[/img]

  7. #7
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    Re: Instrument combinations in GPO

    If you use Trumpet Solo 1 and Trumpet Ensemble 1, 2 or 3 together at the same time, you will get phasing as the ensemble instruments are built from the wave pool of the solo instrument. This is true for all ensemble instruments. I use the ensemble instruments for most passages and use the solo instruments for solos and exposed passages where the section doesn\'t play unison.

    There are a few ways to use the overlays. If you want to save on MIDI tracks you can have an overlay track in which you record all the parts but then you lose panning. Or you can have a separate track for each overlay part panned to the same position as the main sounds. Beware of playing unison though or you will get phasing in the overlay.

  8. #8
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    Re: Instrument combinations in GPO

    folk prophet: The timbres were the result of layering the indivula horns and use of the f & ff overlays.

    Mike Kelley:: You talked me into it. But midi files for \"all\" the demos [img]images/icons/shocked.gif[/img] (now over 100 in all) Here are the files for the horn demos::

    Here is the MIDI FILE (use the GPO Studio file below for use with Finale or Overture, or set up one instance of the Player):

    Only one instance of the GPO Kontakt Player is needed and here is the instrumentation in slot order:

    1. French Horn 1 Ens 1
    2. French Horn 1 Ens 2
    3. French Horn 1 Ens 3
    4. French Horn 2 Ens 1
    5. French Horn 2 Ens 2
    6. French Horn 2 Ens 3
    7. FHorn Overlay F
    8. FHorn Overlay FF

    Here is the Cubasis file (and perhaps this can open in Cubase/Nuendo?):
    CUBASIS FILE

    Here is the OVERTURE notation file:

    Here is the GPO STUDIO FILE :

    From these files you can see how Francesco weaved his magic with the GPO horns. Thanks Francesco for sharing your MIDI file with us.

    I hope you will find this helpful and instructive. I will be posting more of these.

    Gary Garritan

  9. #9

    Re: Instrument combinations in GPO

    As some additional use for \'overlays\' in the brass..

    GPO\'s brass is rather weak when called on to produce typical brass staccatos in faster tempo works.

    One way you can \'goose\' the attacks is to add the overlay and maximum velocities. This works pretty well, and sometimes I bring in a good exciter plug-in where I can control it\'s mix with an envelope in SONAR.

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