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Topic: Windows 10

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  1. #1
    Senior Member rwayland's Avatar
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    Windows 10

    Anybody tried Windows 10 yet? I have done some reading of comments and reviews, and presently I am inclined to wait for user comments. I hate Windows 8.1, but I am afraid of Windows 10. One reason is that it seems difficult to remove the spy functions and the function that allows Microsoft to use your computer to send Windows 10 to other users. Cost of future updates is not addressed anywhere that I can find. Nor is the time the initial installation will remain valid, and important concern for a service, which is what Wind 10 is. Seems to me like a bid for Microwave to own and control all the worlds computers. It also reminds me of the anti-trust action against IBM long ago. SO: comments awaited, please fire away. Richard

  2. #2
    Senior Member Tom_Davis's Avatar
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    Re: Windows 10

    Richard,

    I have not upgraded to 10 myself, but three close friends have. Aside from the general likes and dislikes, they all had the same recommendation: Do not upgrade. Instead, copy all your material, wipe your C rive clean and start from scratch. There were apparently many serious problems when trying to do what Microsoft described as a simple, easy upgrade procedure. Files were corrupted, some programs were partially deleted, warning about illicit software was at every turn - some of which included Finale 2014 and GPO. It seems the software developers assumed that only Microsoft software would be on the C drive.

    Tom

  3. #3
    Senior Member rwayland's Avatar
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    Re: Windows 10

    Thanks, Tom! Now I trust MS even less! I have been considering a shift to an Apple OS for a while, and although a change in OS would be a hassle, it may be a good move. I will study it some more. This would only affect my notebook (HP Envy Core I7). Sonar, Sibelius et al are on an older machine which is somewhat slow, but reliable. Perhaps I should consider installing XP on the notebook! It works well enough. Richard

  4. #4

    Re: Windows 10

    I can tell you from experience it didn't bode well for me. I decided to try it on my laptop, which is a Lenovo E545 ThinkPad Edge using an SSD drive. My biggest issue I had encountered was several programs kept freezing up on me and some functions just didn't work right at all. I don't have any of my music programs on here (just on my desktop) as I mostly use my laptop for work, but after trying Windows 10 for a day that was enough. Fortunately, there was a "recovery" prompt which allows you to roll back your computer to Windows 7, but you only have 30 days to do this or you're stuck with Windows 10. Makes me glad I didn't try W10 on my desktop (also a Lenovo). I couldn't afford to have Finale or Garritan or Sonar stop working.I've looked through a lot of the forums for both Finale and for Sonar and most people who have chosen to upgrade seem to not have any problems whatsoever. It may be something to do with Lenovo, but they have worked perfectly under W7. So I'm sticking with what I've got.Gary
    Serenity Musician Productions (Gary A.)

    Lenovo ThinksStation S30, Windows 10 Professional 64-bit, 20 gig ram, 2 terabyte hd., M-Audio Fast Track, Finale25, Sonar Professional

  5. #5

    Re: Windows 10

    Tell me more about "the function that allows Microsoft to use your computer to send Windows 10 to other users. "

    Allegro Data Solutions

  6. #6

    Re: Windows 10

    I am extremely suspicious of Microsoft's intentions here. I strongly suspect they will go to a subscription model as soon as the user base for W10 reaches a critical mass. A classic bait and switch. It's free at first, and then it isn't, once they have you. Also, from an aesthetics point of view, it's hideous, as was W8. Currently, I use W7 Pro on my music rig, but on my internet computer I am now using Zorin 9, a Linux OS that was designed to look and act like W7. I love it. Unfortunately, at this point, I could not use it for music, as it doesn't support Sonar. but I am hoping that by the time W7 is no longer supported by MS (2020), there will be a solution that will allow me to abandon windows for Linux. The DAW "Reaper" is one possibility, as they will implementing a notation editor soon. Reaper now runs on Linux, but not natively, which means it doesn't work very well. There's a new DAW that does run natively on Linux, Bitwig, but it has no notation and is designed more for electronic-types.

    The other huge concern with W10, as you have pointed out, is the privacy issue. I have removed all my files from One Drive and put them on Box.com. MS's new Privacy Policy states that they can do whatever they want with your property if you put it in their hands. they basically own your stuff. My final tie to Ms will be to close my Outlook Account, when my reservation comes up on Proton Mail. This is maybe the most secure email in the world. Their server is in a mountain in Switzerland. It was started by guys who worked for CERN. Their whole focus is security, especially keeping your stuff out of the hands of governments. and it's free, supported by crowdfunding.

    This whole thing is such a shame. There was a time when MS was cool, and we all were thrilled by the newest edition of Windows, and rightly so. but the world has changed, as it constantly does. but sometimes being a Luddite is the safest thing to do. At any rate, no need to do anything for a year. Let others be the guinea pigs!

  7. #7

    Re: Windows 10

    Quote Originally Posted by rwayland View Post
    Anybody tried Windows 10 yet? I have done some reading of comments and reviews, and presently I am inclined to wait for user comments. I hate Windows 8.1, but I am afraid of Windows 10. One reason is that it seems difficult to remove the spy functions and the function that allows Microsoft to use your computer to send Windows 10 to other users. Cost of future updates is not addressed anywhere that I can find. Nor is the time the initial installation will remain valid, and important concern for a service, which is what Wind 10 is. Seems to me like a bid for Microwave to own and control all the worlds computers. It also reminds me of the anti-trust action against IBM long ago. SO: comments awaited, please fire away. Richard
    Hello Richard,

    I have spent the past week or so trying out Windows 10 and looking at the particular concerns of clean upgrading, programs compatibility, privacy, and enforced automatic downloads.

    I must start off by saying that Tom is spot on. I always go the way of a fresh reformat and reinstall. I would never just try the 'live' upgrade route. I always use a new or spare drive, never my present working drive. That is removed and carefully stored somewhere safe. This way, if things really do go tail over head with the new system, all I need to do is put my previous drive back in and I'm back where I was as if nothing had happened at all. I know this could mean added expense for another drive but, for me, it's worth it for peace of mind, sanity and no lost down time. The other thing with this is that we are not tied to the thirty days roll-back imposed by Microlost. I can go back to my previous system any time I want.

    To a large extent, the fresh re-installing of programs does take care of compatibility issues such as the problems described by Gary. This is providing the programs are all updated. Before starting on my reinstall, I usually prepare by making sure all my programs are the latest versions. I have to say that all my programs installed perfectly, including all my music programs; Finale, Garritan libraries, Sonar etc. I have to say also that my programs seem to be loading more quickly and running more smoothly. I doubt this would have been the case with a 'live' upgrade'.

    Regarding the privacy issues, I agree with Michael. I too am suspicious of Microlost and simply don't trust this behemoth. When doing a clean install there are options regarding privacy that can be turned off. After install, there is a further large list in settings > Privacy to be turned off. There are warnings that turning this or that off will disable Cortana or restrict this or that feature. That suits me but maybe not others who enjoy this robot's input. But now for the big one. Just go and check out O&O ShutUp10, a free anti-spyware tool specifically for Windows 10. It's brilliant and, within one window, everything and anything to do with Microlost telemetry can be nuked. http://www.oo-software.com/en/shutup10

    Enforced automatic updates .. another big one for so many people including myself. Avoid Windows 10 Home and get the Pro version. This, together, with Microlost's own updating tool (yes .. Microsoft did back-down over this and released an update tool) will restore control over updates. Also, that fabulous ShutUp10 tool offers the missing options in Windows 10 to control updates. I've never tried this but the options are there. Wonderful. Perhaps this would work in Home Premium as well. I might try it when I have more time.

    Regarding the looks, well this is a personal thing isn't it. Michael writes how he finds it hideous and I can understand that although, of course, the themes can be changed. I don't mind the desktop .. at the moment. I might change my mind further down the road.

    At the time of writing, with all privacy issues nuked, automatic updates under my control and not Microlost and all programs clean and fresh and working beautifully, it is, actually, a very good OS. However .. I don't trust this amoral company an inch and my previous drive is safe and secure and ready .. stuff Microlost's 30 days .. I can go back to my previous system anytime as if it's in a time-warp.

    Now I'd better get back to my Christmas song .. looking forward to playing with Sonar's release for windows 10.
    Michael
    Patience is a virtue, sensitivity is a gift

  8. #8
    Senior Member Tom_Davis's Avatar
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    Re: Windows 10

    Michael,

    Bravo. A brilliant post on Microsoft 10.

    Tom

  9. #9
    Senior Member rwayland's Avatar
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    Re: Windows 10

    Quote Originally Posted by ejr View Post
    Tell me more about "the function that allows Microsoft to use your computer to send Windows 10 to other users. "
    Well, I can't provide specifics, as I did not bookmark the link, but if you search for Windows 10 on Yahoo or Google, you will find it. I think it was Cnet, or one of the popular computer periodicals. The article provides a solution, but the function should not be the default setting, which may be illegal, on grounds of installing something on your computer that you don't want. Richard

  10. #10
    Senior Member Silh's Avatar
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    Re: Windows 10

    Windows 10 is a no-go for me. When Windows 7 reaches its end of life, I guess I'll have to reconsider my options, but the happenings in the last month or so are likely the last straw for me and Windows.

    A number of weeks back, I noticed that early on a Sunday morning that my hard drive was churning away while I was doing nothing, so much so that the system was essentially unusable (start a program, and it might show up 5-10 minutes later). Some sleuthing with process/resource monitors seemed to point to either the built-in antivirus making checksums of important files to watch for alterations, or the shadow copy/restore point system making backups of all the important files. Tried in vain to stop it from happening, never did figure out what in the world it was doing. Made a few changes, reversed them, did nothing of consequence... and after a few reboots, it was done, never did it again.

    Fast forward to Friday before the last weekend. I was doing some catching up on a number of forums, and happened to glance at my network bandwidth meter, and noticed it was capped. "That's strange," I thought, I'm not downloading anything at the moment. Pull up the NAT table on my firewall/router, noticed a couple of connections to Windows update CDN servers. Checked Windows Update ... hmm, it's not saying that it's downloading any patches/updates. Kill the Windows Update service ... and the connection stops. Did a bit of sleuthing around... and it turns it it was downloading the Windows 10 upgrade, when I had never expressed any interest in it, nor ever gave it permission to download it.

    Not only had I not given it permission, a couple of weeks ago I had deliberately gone and disabled the 'Get Windows 10' nag program, because the icon showing up in my system tray was annoying me, and I didn't want to be bothered by the popups.

    Needless to say, I was furious.

    Spent the rest of the weekend researching and wiping out any of the patches/updates for Windows 7 that are involved in the upgrade to Windows 10, along with any involved in telemetry gathering/reporting, which it turns out was responsible for the hard drive thrashing experienced a few weeks earlier. And of course, had to do the same on the new computer I was just in the process of building (with Windows 7 on purpose, before it became unobtainable)... since it decided to do the same thing too when I started it up.

    I'm glad I caught the download after only about 200MB. I'm on a rural internet connection with a relatively modest transfer quota which I get pretty close to each month, and having an unrequested 2-3gb download causing potential overage charges is undesired. That said, we've given up way too much control over our devices these days, and people think nothing of it, given that is the norm with all the phones today, and it's only going to get worse as it spreads to computers, cars, and everything else.
    -- Matt Wong

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