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Topic: Orchestral mix, EQ, verb, placement questions......

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  1. #1

    Orchestral mix, EQ, verb, placement questions......

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    I have spent most of the morning reading old posts in relation to mixing techniques for orchestral pieces. I had a few questions of the forum gods if they have time.... [img]images/icons/smile.gif[/img]


    Mono or Stereo?
    I can\'t seem to find an answer as to if it is better to render tracks in mono or stereo or perhaps both... It seems that a library like SAM Horns might suffer from collapsing the stereo image due to the inbuilt ambience of the samples. What about things like G-Town percussion though? Should they be mono to \"sit\" them better? Despite also having inbuilt ambience?

    Reverb...
    Do people generally apply some natural ambience to each section of the orchestra; one for strings, brass, winds, perc and then run the whole final mix through something like a hall verb or an impulse? A library like Sam might get away with the one final verb/impulse but something like GOS is as dry as the desert... It seems to need some ambience before the whole orchestra gets a final wash of verb...

    Simon Ravn mentioned I think that he seems to blend a stereo wet mix of the whole piece along with a stereo dry mix... Or is it section by section again? Anyone else employing this technique?


    Render from Giga...
    Slightly off the topic but also related.... Does anyone have advice on how to best render out of Giga? I can\'t seem to trigger the track from the sequencer when it comes to rendering, even if I open the seq from inside Giga... so I have to launch the Giga render function, then jump to my seq and hit play... With some tracks like strings that fade in, it is really hard to align the start times in my mixdown app (Vegas) I have resorted to putting a 4 count pip at the start of each and every track. This just seems to be a lot of extra work.
    --------------------

    FX Settings
    Are there any suggestions for good FX settings for strings, brass, etc? I have read that GOS seems to like being attentuated at around the 3k mark in EQ so it seems that you wouldn\'t neccessarily apply a reverb that rings out at this frequency? Any diffusion, dampening, predelay, etc, settings for good brass, string, perc, wind verb would be great.

    Oh, finally, I think Jeremy Soule said that he has a mono sample of something like brass and he sets it up so that the reverb gets triggered to the opposite side of the hall... In other words, if horns were on the right, the verb tail would ring out to the left... Anyone tried this?

    Thanks everyone, Scott.

  2. #2

    Re: Orchestral mix, EQ, verb, placement questions......

    I had a few questions of the forum gods
    <font size=\"2\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">Aren\'t YOU one of the gods on this forum? Look at this body!!! [img]images/icons/shocked.gif[/img]

  3. #3

    Re: Orchestral mix, EQ, verb, placement questions......

    Hehehe, well more a demi-god at this stage....

    Actually, not even that really.... [img]images/icons/smile.gif[/img]

  4. #4

    Re: Orchestral mix, EQ, verb, placement questions......

    Originally posted by Scott Cairns:
    I can\'t seem to trigger the track from the sequencer when it comes to rendering, even if I open the seq from inside Giga... so I have to launch the Giga render function, then jump to my seq and hit play...
    <font size=\"2\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">Scott,
    What sequencer are you using? I use Sonar and there is a setting in the project options menu that sends a midi start event to GS when you play the sequencer from time zero. There is also a setting you make on GS so it will accept the start command (I\'m not near my system now so I cannot be very specific right now). When you set things up this way though, all of your rendered wav files start at time zero and are perfectly aligned. If you tell us what sequencer you use I am certain someone will have that answer.

  5. #5

    Re: Orchestral mix, EQ, verb, placement questions......

    Forum God..LOL....now, it just can not get more NERDish than that! [img]images/icons/wink.gif[/img]

    Alex

  6. #6

    Re: Orchestral mix, EQ, verb, placement questions......

    Hi Craig, I have tried the option in Giga that awaits the midi command to \"trigger\" but for some weird reason Cubase doesnt seem to send the start event.

    It is kind of strange considering that Giga is already receiving midi events to play the samples in the first place.... It just doesnt happen when I am rendering a file, unless I press play in my sequencer.

    Lex, LOL.... [img]images/icons/smile.gif[/img] I thought I would try to stroke the ego\'s of the more \"senior\" members here [img]images/icons/wink.gif[/img]

    Hello, Bruce, King, Simon, Thomas and all you other good folk I forgot to mention... [img]images/icons/tongue.gif[/img]

  7. #7

    Re: Orchestral mix, EQ, verb, placement questions......

    I fixed the GS midi start event issue. I found it under sync setup in Cubase. I had to send midi clock out to the respective Giga ports.

    Thanks Craig for your sugesstion. It amazing what you can fix when you spend 5 minutes to have a proper look at the problem. [img]images/icons/smile.gif[/img]

  8. #8

    Re: Orchestral mix, EQ, verb, placement questions......

    oh boy...

    this is BIG

    you\'ll get alot of personal preferences too

    Mono vs Stereo.

    It depends ont he way the instrument was recorded and its application, if you ask me. I\'d never mono-ize a string section, for example. I may reshape the stereo spread of it to \"place\" it in a mix, but its very size requires me to leave some spread if I\'m trying to emulate its position.

    Solo instruments on the other hand, depending on the mix, I would mono-ize. Again it depends on the recording. If there is ambience, the recording should be stereo, if its fairly close/dry it can be mono-ized IMO.

    I also reshape the stereo field depending on where I want to \"place\" an instrument in a virutal room. Imaging the instrument in front of your eyes. Its left and right most poits will probably be very wide, then more it farther away from you, the \"width\" between the left most and right most point becomes smaller and smaller. Using this analogy can help to decide what you need. It doesn\'t mean this is what you should use for \"law\" in determining what you need, as all instruments create sound differently, but it can help.


    Reverb,

    personaly taste, find what works for you. And ask about specific mixes you like. Otherwise its too general.


    FX settings.

    The \"opposite side\" reverb/delay thing I\'ve done before. It works well in fact, it creates a nice \"wide\" sound. It also helps to create some \"direction\" of sound. (his example is horns, which obviously have their bells directed away from the front of the stage)

    here again. Its about specifc mixes. You\'re just giong to get too many \"general\" responses taht may or may not work for you, or even for specific cues. Some may take to rolling off highs in the percussion, some may need the extra sparkle. (I firmly believe that its even more than that, and with VST automation here we\'ll be riding our EQ/verb parameters alot more nowadays!)

    The best here is to actually learn whats going on with the sounds and use that with the tools to get the sound you\'re after.

  9. #9

    Re: Orchestral mix, EQ, verb, placement questions......

    Thank you very much King. As always your insights are invaluable. In fact, i tried a technique you mentioned in an earlier post about using hi pass and low pass filters and getting \"surgical\" with the EQ.

    This has worked wonders for my mix, everything sits in an identifable space now and just generally sounds cleaner.

    Regards, Scott.

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