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Topic: Democracy begins it's end!!

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  1. #1

    Democracy begins it\'s end!!

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    ***Advertisments***
    You probably haven\'t heard, but recent anti-war, anti-Bush ads are being denied airtime on the major networks. Comcast owned CBS will not play these ads, but will begin playing Bush\'s ads this week. The consolidation of the media is the greatest threat to our democracy. Comcast, Aol/Time Warner and Rupert Murdoch/Fox will soon own everything and will completely erase all dissent from the mainstream media. They have just proven that this is what\'s coming. Beware! The miserable news coverage is going to get worse and because these companies also control the internet, to a large degree, that\'s the next thing to go. In a free country, political ads from all perspectives are fair game. Not in America. Not anymore. Oppose the merger of Disney and Comcast. Beware, this election year. Seek alternative sources for the news. The networks may seem like they want a fair fight, but believe me, they have their guy. The recent anti-Bush trend in the news will fade and when the cards are down, the media will be touting Bush\'s good deeds right up until election day.

    truth here:

    www.democracynow.org

    www.truthout.org

    \"Thieves in High Places\" by Jim Hightower

  2. #2

    Re: Democracy begins it\'s end!!

    These ads were in real bad taste though. I really don\'t think Kerry will have any problem getting his ads on all the networks when the time comes. (if the intern scandal doesn\'t grow legs that is) His ads will have some class to them and not go into black helicopter-bush is hitler land. There seems to be a line that you can cross and not get your viewpoint out there on mainstream TV. For instance, Michael Moore has managed to get his assesment of GW out as a deserter. (General vs the Deserter) The facts seem to come in that this title is a bit extreme, techically. But he got that and alot of other messages through. When you go further though and litterally call our president \"Hitler\", the networks won\'t have anything to do with that. It really comes accross as childish and un-serious and lacking in class so they won\'t run that stuff.
    Also,Speaking of Hitler, lets not forget that he disarmed his people before abusing them. Bush on the other hand enabled Texans to train and carry concealed weapons while he was Governator here. Ashcroft has declared that the 2nd ammendment does mean \"the people\" and not a standing army like the national guard. In the end, I have to place more trust in the capitalists extremists that are not planning to disarm everyone than the lefties that are all about gun conficsation (they call control but their stated agenda is disarmament). Also, when the rubber hits the road, it comes down to this. When judging a country and its basic freedom, I ask one simple question of its people. \"Can you leave your country and move freely about it?\" The most oppressive regimes, many of them communist oriented, will not let their people leave thier country. THEY ARE PRISONERS in their country. N Korea, China, Russia at one time, Cuba. We can all leave this country any time we want. Hell, as we have seen, even Mexican citizens can come and go as they please from their country. I don\'t see us heading down that road just yet but I\'ll keep my eyes open.

    Also, don\'t forget, that everything and I mean everything is readily available to anyone who is willing to read a little bit at the book store or the internet. Barnes & Noble, a mainstream store carries all the political spectrum and conspiracy books, anti Bush books & magazines. I know because I read them and keep up with some scary stuff. Its out there if you are not lazy and let the 3 networks do your thinking for you.
    Problem is that we have dumbed down people so much that they don\'t get out there and research things.

    As Nick said, beware of anything to control or censor the internet. Here are a couple things to watch out for.

    1. Flooding the internet with crap and BS and missinformation and kooks and all sorts of unreliable and contradictory stuff. I think this is happening right now. It may just be natural but if I was a PTB (power that be) and wanted to discredit the internet, I would flood it with never ending crap and contradiction and make it a buzzword \"where did you hear that stupid stuff, on the internet?\" In fact, I have been asked that many times now so this is working.
    2. Offer some extremely high bandwith video on demand or service that is tottaly disconected from the current free internet. In other words, try to obselete the internet and replace it with something that the PTB control. I don\'t know how feasible this is but watch out for it.

    And folks, please keep in mind, no matter how you feel about guns, history has consistently shown that when governments disarm their people, they abuse them severely with impunity until an evil country like the U.S. pulls a regime change on them. Crime is bad I know but it would still take us hundreds of years with our crime rate to lose the amount of people that Hitler and Stalin killed of their own citizens in a handfull of years. Governments are indeed very dangerous so watch out. Also, in case nobody noticed, murder can be reduced drastically by leaving killers in jail. There is an 11 year old girl kidnapped on video tape and killed in Florida that can attest to that. Her killer was supposed to be on death row at one time and somehow got out legally. There are so many asinine things that we are doing about crime that are not the fault of firearms.

    Cheers
    Dave (wearing his Texan Redneck hat)
    [img]images/icons/cool.gif[/img]

    www.worldthreats.com
    www.frontpagemagazine.com
    www.infowars.com

  3. #3

    Re: Democracy begins it\'s end!!

    http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/

    http://www.commondreams.org/


    I just saw a 60 minutes piece on Skull and Bones
    http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article5244.htm

    surprised to hear that Kerry is among them.

  4. #4

    Re: Democracy begins it\'s end!!

    Originally posted by David Govett:
    These ads were in real bad taste though. I really don\'t think Kerry will have any problem getting his ads on all the networks when the time comes. (if the intern scandal doesn\'t grow legs that is) His ads will have some class to them and not go into black helicopter-bush is hitler land. There seems to be a line that you can cross and not get your viewpoint out there on mainstream TV. For instance, Michael Moore has managed to get his assesment of GW out as a deserter. (General vs the Deserter) The facts seem to come in that this title is a bit extreme, techically. But he got that and alot of other messages through. When you go further though and litterally call our president \"Hitler\", the networks won\'t have anything to do with that. It really comes accross as childish and un-serious and lacking in class so they won\'t run that stuff.
    Also,Speaking of Hitler, lets not forget that he disarmed his people before abusing them. Bush on the other hand enabled Texans to train and carry concealed weapons while he was Governator here. Ashcroft has declared that the 2nd ammendment does mean \"the people\" and not a standing army like the national guard. In the end, I have to place more trust in the capitalists extremists that are not planning to disarm everyone than the lefties that are all about gun conficsation (they call control but their stated agenda is disarmament). Also, when the rubber hits the road, it comes down to this. When judging a country and its basic freedom, I ask one simple question of its people. \"Can you leave your country and move freely about it?\" The most oppressive regimes, many of them communist oriented, will not let their people leave thier country. THEY ARE PRISONERS in their country. N Korea, China, Russia at one time, Cuba. We can all leave this country any time we want. Hell, as we have seen, even Mexican citizens can come and go as they please from their country. I don\'t see us heading down that road just yet but I\'ll keep my eyes open.

    Also, don\'t forget, that everything and I mean everything is readily available to anyone who is willing to read a little bit at the book store or the internet. Barnes & Noble, a mainstream store carries all the political spectrum and conspiracy books, anti Bush books & magazines. I know because I read them and keep up with some scary stuff. Its out there if you are not lazy and let the 3 networks do your thinking for you.
    Problem is that we have dumbed down people so much that they don\'t get out there and research things.

    As Nick said, beware of anything to control or censor the internet. Here are a couple things to watch out for.

    1. Flooding the internet with crap and BS and missinformation and kooks and all sorts of unreliable and contradictory stuff. I think this is happening right now. It may just be natural but if I was a PTB (power that be) and wanted to discredit the internet, I would flood it with never ending crap and contradiction and make it a buzzword \"where did you hear that stupid stuff, on the internet?\" In fact, I have been asked that many times now so this is working.
    2. Offer some extremely high bandwith video on demand or service that is tottaly disconected from the current free internet. In other words, try to obselete the internet and replace it with something that the PTB control. I don\'t know how feasible this is but watch out for it.

    And folks, please keep in mind, no matter how you feel about guns, history has consistently shown that when governments disarm their people, they abuse them severely with impunity until an evil country like the U.S. pulls a regime change on them. Crime is bad I know but it would still take us hundreds of years with our crime rate to lose the amount of people that Hitler and Stalin killed of their own citizens in a handfull of years. Governments are indeed very dangerous so watch out. Also, in case nobody noticed, murder can be reduced drastically by leaving killers in jail. There is an 11 year old girl kidnapped on video tape and killed in Florida that can attest to that. Her killer was supposed to be on death row at one time and somehow got out legally. There are so many asinine things that we are doing about crime that are not the fault of firearms.

    Cheers
    Dave (wearing his Texan Redneck hat)
    [img]images/icons/cool.gif[/img]

    www.worldthreats.com
    www.frontpagemagazine.com
    www.infowars.com
    <font size=\"2\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">Dave,
    The ads are not in bad taste at all. This has nothing to do with Texas, by the way. Which ads have you seen? There is an ad with a lie detector machine. It\'s brilliant and true. There is another ad with kids working that asks who is going to pay for Bush\'s defecit? A very valid question and a truthful answer. You\'ve been listening to too many moderates. You should invite the truth. Bush is the biggest government spender in the history of the US and the world. That\'s right. He spent more money than any democrat by a mile. But still Republicans go around calling Democrats \"big liberal spenders\". Dave you might try actually buying one of those books that you see in the bookstore. Try Jim Hightowers \"Thieves in High Places.\" He\'s from Texas and his book is full of facts.

    A THOUGHT: Balanced media coverage is irrelevant if an administration is completely corrupt and working to destroy the country. If it was balanced coverage, they would actually report the stories that are important and criticize appropriately. And do the same for democrats and republicans. Balanced doesn\'t mean that it is there job to make it seem like the 2 parties are about the same. It means not being overly harsh and critical of one and being less critical of the other. Bush has been busy changing this country from the core. Hightowers book lists all the things his administration has achieved in 3 years. It\'s a BIG list. You\'ll be shocked when you see it. And it\'s not open for interpretation. And don\'t get sucked into the nonsense like Bush\'s service record. He avoided the war just like most mega rich kids. Who cares? If you like Bush, that\'s fine, but you\'ll be very suprised to find out what he\'s really been up to, if start ignoring the mass media. There have been 10 books that call Bush a liar and all of them are full of facts. Not one of them is being sued, so you might want to draw some conclusions from that.

  5. #5

    Re: Democracy begins it\'s end!!

    About the budget: Actually the US spends over 50% of the budget on the military. That obscenely high 20 something % figure they publish is only half the story. Billions of dollars from agencies like NASA actually are military dollars, but they hide it. A modest cut in military spending could fix most of Americas problems. But they don\'t want that. They want you to be dumb. You\'re just worker bees. And Dave that whole arming the citizens argument is completely irrelevant in the modern age. The government has emergency procedures in place to drop gas, if there is a revolution. Look it up, it\'s true. Bush has majorly funded this department.

  6. #6

    Re: Democracy begins it\'s end!!

    \"Then let\'s regime-change all of Europe, for example! Even the police in England don\'t normally carry guns.\"

    But they are not yet abusing their citizens to an intolerable level. If they ever do and they happen to be sitting on enough oil or other resources, we might just do that. [img]images/icons/wink.gif[/img]

    \"Yes, it was possible to overthrow a bad government with muskets...in the late 1700s. Nowadays that concept is laughable, and the issue is much more complicated.\"

    Its more a deterrent at the very least. Also, I see a bunch of rag tag insurgents that are DOING JUST THAT against our military right now as we speak, in a country that is mostly favorable to us numbers wise.

    \"...I\'m not saying people shouldn\'t be allowed to hunt.\"

    The second amendment has nothing do to with hunting. Its all about self defense against predators (human or animal) and tyranny. Also, firearms do realistically work on a small scale like dealing with violent criminals. Also, I don\'t like the idea of shooting animals for fun either.

    \"We\'ve discussed this before, Dave, and I know you\'ve chased off rapists with guns. Nobody could say that\'s a bad thing. But you\'ve had special training, and I think that\'s an exception.\"

    Its more attitude than training. All the Marines trained us to do is get to an objective (run, hike, climb etc.) and then take it over in a coordinated teamwork way mostly using the radio and air strikes or mortars and if needed shooting long range firearms.(witch basically distract them and keep their heads down while another group does and end run) It was not very useful for dealing with burglars and rapists though. The training does help you over come the fear of violence and fear of the weapons and familiarity. Personally, in concept, I\'m all for the strictest gun control & training & background checks & harsh penalties for breaking these laws.

    In the end, people have to be able to defend themselves if they so choose without the only recourse being 9-1-1. 9-1-1 is useless while you or someone else is being victimized. In the countries that have recently confiscated and banned private ownership of firearms, their violent crime rate is going way up now. For God sakes, in England now, they have public ally announced that the police will not respond to burglaries. Its open season now.

    There are so many things we are doing wrong in dealing with crime but the solution is always to disarm law-abiding people. Nobody seems to realize that the violent criminals don\'t abide by those laws.

    Also, I forgot to mention that it may be much safer in general in Europe and many other countries but its all about the people and the history. Unlike Europe and many other countries that have had hundreds of years to work things out, here in the U.S. we are still getting settled in and working through the often violent and cruel and recent history here. Much of the crime we face here in the U.S. is a direct result of some of the worst things in our history that are still being worked out. We have severe racial tensions and the sense of hate & hopelessness in our poorest areas to work on. Also, unlike much of Europe, we for some reason do not have any control of our borders here and who we let in. Most of the immigrants are in the end, a very welcome part of our country and a big part of our culture but we are learning that a large percentage of the Hispanic gangs (very violent ones at that) are not here legally and in many cases, we cant touch them until we catch them in a crime. If that crime is violent, its too late for the victim. (who more often than not is also Hispanic) Part of that problem is that the government and police in Mexico have been so corrupt and abusive that some of the people there have no respect for laws or law enforcement or government. The corruption and poverty of that system are often brought here. And that brings us back to another aspect of our history, the wars with Mexico and the territory conquests. There is still bad blood about that as well that comes into play here. Lots of bad blood to say the least. This is not specific to America either, just more recent. The entire history of this world is all about violence, power and greed and cruelty. History has been made by those who won the battles. The leaders are usually the ones that are vain & selfish enough to want the job. We have a long way to go. In the meantime, I really like the ability to protect myself with something more than a cell phone.

    Take care
    Dave (wearing his sociology hat)

  7. #7

    Re: Democracy begins it\'s end!!

    \"The ads are not in bad taste at all. This has nothing to do with Texas, by the way. Which ads have you seen? There is an ad with a lie detector machine. It\'s brilliant and true. There is another ad with kids working that asks who is going to pay for Bush\'s defecit? A very valid question and a truthful answer. You\'ve been brainwashed. \"

    Sorry Nick, I missed some of those ads. If they are not allowed on the air, that is indeed bad. I have nothing to disagree with the rest of your responses. The thing about dropping gas on us if we revolt is very interesting. Please point me to the source of that when you can. Its still no excuse to just give up and be tottally helpless.

    \"Hightowers book lists all the things his administration has achieved in 3 years.\"

    I know the guy and he rocks! I\'ll check it out.

    \"And don\'t get sucked into the nonsense like Bush\'s service record. He avoided the war just like most mega rich kids.\"

    I know that. Like I said, \"techncally\" not a deserter. Also, it appears that he did serve all the time required or made up missed drills. However I am not deluded enough to not realize that this is a good way to avoid serious combat.

    \"There have been 10 books that call Bush a liar and all of them are full of facts. Not one of them is being sued, so you might want to draw some conclusions from that.\"

    Thats what I was saying. These things are out there in force. You just have to read a bit. You wont find this stuff on mainstream TV or radio.

    Also, for those that don\'t know, I love to debate with Nick and I learn alot from him. We disagree on a few things but both love this country. He is one of the people here that I trust and respect the most.

    Cheers
    Dave

  8. #8

    Re: Democracy begins it\'s end!!

    \"Then let\'s regime-change all of Europe, for example! Even the police in England don\'t normally carry guns.\"
    But they are not yet abusing their citizens to an intolerable level. If they ever do and they happen to be sitting on enough oil or other resources, we might just do that.


    Dave it realy isn\'t okay to go around changing countries to fit YOUR concept. You have picked up some bad habits in the military IMHO. And do you realy think if you decided that you did\'nt like your present goverment you could just pick up your trusty M16 and march to Washington?

    ed [img]images/icons/frown.gif[/img]

  9. #9

    Re: Democracy begins it\'s end!!

    Hey Ed, I was just being sarcastic and refering to what is happening in Iraq. Plenty of abusive places out there but I do notice that we intervene when they are sitting on top of a lot of oil. You forgot to include the smiley face that I put at the end of my quote. That was my way of trying to show that I was joking.

    Sorry to freak you out.

    In the end, realistically, if our government was evil enough to need a revolution, they would be evil and sophisticated enough to fool us into not doing anything. If they were evil enough, they could stage disasters or terror attacks to divert the people and rally them and pass draconian laws etc. Some folks think that is what is happening now. Its still no excuse to give up and just be tottally helpless.
    I don\'t forsee any marches on Washington. However, there have been situations where grass roots folks weighed and contemplated getting organized and involved such as the Waco tragedy. However, the Davidians were portrayed as too strange and abusive for most people to be willing to risk their life to go help. It would be a situation like that where enough people might eventually say \"enough is enough\" and go try to shoo off the feds with force. In this day of terror fears, I don\'t forsee anything like that happening though, no matter how abusive things may get someday.
    Dave

  10. #10

    Re: Democracy begins it\'s end!!

    That was a different post about the ads, Dave, not mine.

    I\'ll read and answer your other post later...

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