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Topic: Bad vibes on NS, developers are partly to blame, too many freebies being given out...

  1. #1

    Bad vibes on NS, developers are partly to blame, too many freebies being given out...

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    Well, it\'s obvious that more and more developers are using high profile users on Northern Sounds to make demos for them, beta test, basically giving them the libraries for free...

    While the developer expects nothing in return, there\'s a unwritten rule that you\'re kind of buying the peace with some individuals you might think would have otherwise dissed the library, or at worse they will refrain from saying the library sucks publically because of their perceived priviledged relationship with the developer....

    This is not theory folks, I have people secretly emailing me about buying the C7 library saying \"but dont make it public cause I wouldnt want to make this developer look bad because I betatest his libraries or I got his libraries for free but I think they suck but please don\'t say anything to him\"... Now this is not one person it\'s MANY users on this board which feel they are bound to developers be it warranted or not because they either got the library free for making demos for the developers or they were betatesters...

    I have also received many emails from users who lost confidence in some \"high profile\" members because of their evident over the top bias for some libraries which they are obviously inclined to say is the best of the best since they either betatested it or made demos in return for a free copy, I\'m not saying all betatesters and demo makers do this but the ones who do really make the rest look really bad, and it\'s getting more and more obvious even to newbies joining this forum.

    That\'s one if not the most important problem on Norhtern Sounds right now.: Too many betatesters, too many freebies handed out in return for demos or buying the peace with some users.
    Because of this situation you\'re even seeing betatester wars going on, we saw this with the ridiculous orchestra 3 way war a few months ago, that was simply horrible reading and make the forum look like a kindergarden.

    It\'s getting to the point that when I read anything on this board or read a really really defensive reponse to a post, first thing that comes to my mind is \"hmmm, did he get a freebie on this one, or was he a betatester ?\" Unfortunatly more and more the answer is \"Yep betatester... or yup got a freebie in return for demos\".

    The only way to clean up this forum community is to get rid of this betatesting and freebie mentality between developers and users, NO MORE FREEBIES!.

    I know this will rub a few of you the wrong way, why wouldn\'t it you\'re getting 1000\'s of dollars worth of libraries for free...

    I\'m not saying all betatesters or freebie demo makers have bad intentions but the last few months have certainly proven that a evident bias is apparent when people are either asked to betatest a certain library or get it for free in return for making demos or a high profile user review. I\'ve seen proof of this with private correspondance with some of you.
    We\'ve also seen the opposite occuring when a betatester said publically that a library he betatested wasn\'t that good almost being virtually lynched and assassinated by a developer, again not a good situation...

    There are plenty of other talented people that can make demos or betatest than the users on this board. Rid the board of special interets and it will be a better place to come visit to discuss sample libraries without always having to wonder if that comment was from a regular user, a friend of the developer or someone who got a free copy in return for a demo or was a betatester who doesnt really feels free to speak his mind.

    I gave away 2 copies of the Giga Clean Electric Guitars library. One to a \"high Profile\" user who was supposed to do a side by side comparaison of Electric guitars sample libraries avaialble at the time which never materialized and another to Robert Wright, Technology editor for the Toronto Star who was supposed to write a review for the library which he obviously never did even after me tailing him for a year with him always answering \"it\'s not ready yet\" or \"I moved, haven\'t had time\" all the excuses in the book BS.... all he wanted was a free copy because of his standing, that\'s when I decided never again to give out a free copy to anyone. I even had one woman email me saying she lost her baby and so we should give her a fee copy, how sick is that... No people, if you want credibility and a certain perceived professionalism on this board then NO MORE FREEBIES. Now when you\'ll read a user review you\'ll be sure he\'s a regulare user who payed for his copy.

    There\'s also the financial aspects of this board that has become out of control but what can I say that\'s the way Northern Sounds have decided this forum was to go and while I hate doing it, if a competitor is going to plaster the forum with sale propaganda in about 10 threads and use every sneaky way to plug his product in every thread out of 50 on the first page , first off this makes the entire community and forum look bad but unfortunatly I have to respond in kind since this is my livelyhood and I won\'t let any developer try and bully me out of my main income, but there is a way to resolve this (see below).

    I tried a few months ago to get a developer code of conduct done for this board and others .
    The main points were : Never to get into public arguments with users (this was excluding trollers trying to ruin the reputaion of a developer)
    One sales thread per month and only one demo per front page on the forum be it user or developer demo (I also would like a user demo section because some developers are obviously using user demos has a sale tactic). No sneaky threads advertising a certain library while discussing other topics or shameless library plugging in competitor\'s threads. No betatesters posting in sales or demo threads period and if they allowed to do so saying \"hey this library is the best of the best, dont walk, run and buy it!\" then there would have to be a standardized message clearly stating they are in fact a betatester for the said library or got a free copy for making demos. I don\'t remember the rest but it was more complete than this but that was the main idea, and I\'d be willing to follow this in a heart beat if All Developers were to adhere to these rules.

    Unfortunatly I don\'t see this happening any time soon on this board, too many over inflated egos in here, you can add me to the list. I may be blunt but at least you\'ll always get the real deal with me, no bs.

    AAAAhhhh that felt good, O.K. flame away people you know you want to. [img]images/icons/wink.gif[/img]


  2. #2

    Re: Bad vibes on NS, developers are partly to blame, too many freebies being given out...

    Franky, are you looking for beta testers by any chance?

  3. #3

    Re: Bad vibes on NS, developers are partly to blame, too many freebies being given out...


    The devil made me do it...

  4. #4

    Re: Bad vibes on NS, developers are partly to blame, too many freebies being given out...

    Maybe developers should consider doing what many software developers do and allow people to download some kind of time-limited version of their products so that they can test and decide for themselves. Then they wouldn\'t have to rely on the word of anyone else, betatester or not.

    The problems on these forums has little to do with betatesting and favoritism and everything to do with the childishness of some of its members. People who are so busy trying to \"one-up\" each other that any constructive debate gets lost.

    So don\'t single out the betatesters or demo makers. There\'s more than enough blame to go around.

  5. #5

    Re: Bad vibes on NS, developers are partly to blame, too many freebies being given out...

    LOL !
    I agree, lots of blame to go around, I didn\'t say they\'re the only ones to blame. I\'m saying the developers are to blame for creating this situation, I\'m saying this is one of the MAIN reasons why there\'s so much problems on Northern Sounds not the only one.

    Too many persons are getting freebies that\'s a fact and these people are influenced directly or indirectly in their assessment of a certain library since they got it for free, to me that\'s a Major problem and it is destroying Northern SOunds....


  6. #6

    Re: Bad vibes on NS, developers are partly to blame, too many freebies being given out...

    howabout, developer stop trying to stiffle up peoples real opinions? Wouldn\'t that stop the whole \"buying peace\" situation?

    I think its total BS, to think that one opinion is not a real opinion because someone got a library for free?

    I\'ve pissed off quite a few develoeprs because they thought they could buy some sort of peace with me. Now I dont get many free libs anymore (from the ones who are worried about stuff), but that part of my integrity is still intact.

  7. #7

    Re: Bad vibes on NS, developers are partly to blame, too many freebies being given out...

    It also seems to me that people should really start taking time to enforce a strict NDA. This is in both the developer and the tester\'s court. The tester shouldn\'t be talking about the library\'s pros and cons to anyone other than to the developer and the developer should not release the names of their testers. This is how the game industry does it and it works well. Of course, when the library is actually released, everything is fair game.

    Of course, this would only work in a perfect world where people are grown ups and able to keep their mouths shut. It\'s called a professional working relationship, folks...it\'s actually not as hard as you might think.

    Above all, people need to start getting thicker skins. We are in the profession of creativity. It\'s totally subjective. What sounds phenomenal to one is going to sound abysmal to the other. Everyone is entitled to an opinion. It\'s how the world works. I, myself, have had my share of pans by the critics. Sure, it sucks, but it\'s just part of the job.

    In conclusion; I have been very disappointed with this board as of late. I used to come here to get valuable tips and information regarding sample libraries, software, orchestration, and just a great feeling of people that share my same passion: MUSIC. I hate to think that a board that has so many professionals has dwindled down to adolescent name calling and bickering. We seem to have suffered the same fate as all forums. We are adults, let\'s act like it for crap\'s sake.


  8. #8

    Re: Bad vibes on NS, developers are partly to blame, too many freebies being given out...

    zwack, thats when you start getting into \"buying peace\"

    its \"shut up\" money

    If they get all the \"respected\" peole to work on/get free libs. The users lose out on what could be better, and what might be weak.

    If its going to be strict, then we shouldn\'t be allowed to speak about how good a library is either.

  9. #9

    Re: Bad vibes on NS, developers are partly to blame, too many freebies being given out...

    hehe \"zwack\".

    Perhaps developers should go more towards a games industry standard of people signing up to be testers and it\'s a complete random selection to see who actually gets to work with the library in its Beta state.
    Sure, you run the risk of getting people that might not be quite as stellar as others, but it seems to me that you have a better chance of finding people that genuinely want to make the product better...and you don\'t have the developer in the situation to try to placate the tester that they have hired.
    I dunno. This has probably all been done before. I don\'t want to pretend to know the answers, that\'s for sure, but something has to change.

  10. #10

    Re: Bad vibes on NS, developers are partly to blame, too many freebies being given out...

    Seems to me that if you accept or seek work as a betatester and you sign an NDA, then you should shut the hell up.

    If you want to speak your mind, don\'t sign the NDA. It\'s that simple.

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