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Topic: Vocaloid 2 Prima with Sonar 6 PE on Win XP

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  1. #1

    Vocaloid 2 Prima with Sonar 6 PE on Win XP

    Long story. I had a DAW built years ago, which was then state of the art. I'm nearly finished the score for my musical. All that's needed are the vocals (which until now have been VIs of oos and ahhs). Since I can't afford to hire singers, I am toying with the idea of using something like Vocaloid 2 Prima because the demos, while not spectacular, sounded good enough and they will work with my system as it is.

    First Question: Will it work with Sonar 6 (Producer's Edition)? Preferably, as a VI / plug-in.

    If not, can I just export the existing vocal track from Sonar as a MIDI file, import it into Vocaloid, make a vocal track and save it as a WAV, then import it back into Sonar in place of the original track?

    Second Question (okay, technically, the third): If one of the above methods works, is there a version of Vocaloid 2 or an add-on for it with a male vocalist available anywhere?

    Big Fish Audio is currently selling one with a female vocalist (Prima) at a discount for Columbus Day weekend (2016).

    Thanks. This is still my go-to place for obscure musical info, though the forum seems to be hanging on by a thread, as it were.

    Allegro Data Solutions

  2. #2

    Re: Vocaloid 2 Prima with Sonar 6 PE on Win XP

    Just to update the previous post, as there now appears to be more info on the Big Fish web site. There are several virtual vocalists (one of which is male) for Vocaloid 2&3 that will apparently work with Windows XP.

    These all include a parameter for "gender". I'm not sure if that means you can make a female voice sound like a man's, or vice versa (or if that even matters if the range isn't also extended up or down).

    It says that these will not work with Sonar as a VST, but it should work with Re-wire.

    Does anyone have experience using this, or a similar app, with Re-wire in Sonar 6?

    Or experience with the "gender" parameter in Vocaloid 2 or 3?

    If so, what can you tell us?

    Thanks.

    Allegro Data Solutions

  3. #3
    Senior Member tedvanya's Avatar
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    Re: Vocaloid 2 Prima with Sonar 6 PE on Win XP

    I can not help you, but thanks for the idea of Vocaloid.
    After looking it up, I now know that you can not use this with Sonar. I have heard the word "rewire" but it is blaw blaw to me, please let me know if you are successful (if you buy it). I am hanging on by a thread here too....
    Ted

  4. #4

    Re: Vocaloid 2 Prima with Sonar 6 PE on Win XP

    At this point, I'm souring on the whole idea. Though, based on the demos I have been able to find online, the Prima edition seems to be the best of the bunch, they all seem horribly robotic to me.

    https://youtu.be/r_Qoyc1z4Bw

    I don't think synthesized voices will ever be a substitute for real singers. But I was hoping to get something that was just good enough to demo my score. I'd even consider exporting all the accompaniment from Sonar as WAV files, and all the vocal tracks as MIDI and import them into another app on a newer machine and do the vocals there. But I haven't been able to find anything remotely convincing.

    Prima sounded like it was barely acceptable, but it seems like you only need one unconvincing phoneme (or transition between two of them) to ruin the whole effect. It's like one synthetic sound in the melody line makes the whole vocal track sound artificial. I really don't want the listener focusing on things like that when I'm trying to sell the score.

    Allegro Data Solutions

  5. #5
    Senior Member Tom_Davis's Avatar
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    Re: Vocaloid 2 Prima with Sonar 6 PE on Win XP

    I don't know what your financial situation is, but I have been experimenting with EastWest Symphonic Choirs with fairly good results. Granted we are many years from a computer besting the human voice, but with the ability of the EWSC to sing words as well as tones, it has been a major contributor to my own choral sales.

    Here's a sample using GPO4 and EWSC: Agnus Dei (Latin Version)
    https://app.box.com/s/z2xj8vtb89uc43k6ucoe

    And this sample using the voices from GPO5: Starlight Reflected on a Frozen Lake
    https://app.box.com/s/57vp8lmulowpwe4ajxwf8esxlcptbt7k

    Both are downloaded directly from Finale as audio tracks and converted to MP3 files with no DAW or other enhancement.

    Tom

  6. #6

    Re: Vocaloid 2 Prima with Sonar 6 PE on Win XP

    As a matter of fact, I did try the East West Choirs once, when it was first released, but it didn't work for me. Mainly because about 2/3 of the numbers in my musical are solos, duets, or trios and the choirs could only be used on the chorus numbers. If I remember correctly, you couldn't use the word builder feature on the solo voices and the only male soloist was a boy soprano.

    Also, the style of singing for the choruses was too classical for this show. While my music sounds a bit more classical than standard Broadway fare (big band or pop) the East West Choirs were just too classical-sounding. Fortunately, I was able to return this product to the vendor (after a lot of back and forth). The Vocaloid Prima singer sounded okay for one of my two female leads. The other, younger character, should sound more like some of the Vocaloid pop singers -- except that all those I listened to were a bit too robotic. And the one male voice (Toni) was way over-the-top operatic (and robotic as well).

    Allegro Data Solutions

  7. #7
    Senior Member Silh's Avatar
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    Re: Vocaloid 2 Prima with Sonar 6 PE on Win XP

    Did you ever run across Realivox Blue?

    Getting it to sound good will be some work (especially dipthongs and such), though I suppose that's par for the course for any synthetic vocals.

    Sadly, I haven't run across any really good English demos of it on YouTube though, and the vowel tones in it are a bit more conducive to Latin than English.

    The best demo of it I've managed to find so far:
    -- Matt Wong

  8. #8

    Re: Vocaloid 2 Prima with Sonar 6 PE on Win XP

    I liked their demos, but I would have to upgrade my whole system, which would probably cost more than hiring real singers and take twice as long.

    Allegro Data Solutions

  9. #9
    Senior Member Silh's Avatar
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    Re: Vocaloid 2 Prima with Sonar 6 PE on Win XP

    Ahh, okay. Wasn't sure what software/hardware limitations you were up against, though AFAIK it does run on one of the Kontakt versions that still runs on XP.

    I hear you about the extra time though...
    -- Matt Wong

  10. #10
    Senior Member tedvanya's Avatar
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    Re: Vocaloid 2 Prima with Sonar 6 PE on Win XP

    ejr, unfortunately I can not help either. But, I wish to remind you a strange but satisfying weird effect our brain is giving us. When listening music made by electronic means, at the beginning we feel the strange "artificial" sound, but soon our brain substitute and replace the hearing real experience with an "expected" sound, and we can keep enjoying what we listen to quite well. That does not mean that any bad sound can be subject to this kind of successful brain activity, but today, we do not use sounds which are "way out", most of us using acceptable sounds, even if we can not spend thousands on libraries. So, sorry for the long windiness, just wanted to point out to you, that maybe you are too critical to your production, expecting perfection (impossible) from YOUR soloists or choirs, and not giving credit to your customer to understand that you simply try to show what a real choir or soloist will do with your good composition. Any decent sample, even aa-s or oo-s should convey the possibility of great success when done by live performers.
    Good luck,

    Ted

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