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Topic: Use of GPO tied to Native Instruments website?

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  1. #1

    Use of GPO tied to Native Instruments website?

    I just installed GPO. It loads fast, it sounds great. It is the kind of package I\'ve always wanted and I\'m thankful that Gary had the vision and ability to make it possible. What fallows is NOT a knock against the program at all, but rather my dismay over the way it\'s use is eternally tied to Native Instruments. I\'ve never owned an application that I could not \"use\" whenever I wanted and I don\'t like it. I don\'t want my ability to install software that I\'ve purchased dependant on weather or not a company \"gets back to me\" or has a \"working website\". In fact, I don\'t even want it to be dependant on weather or not the company still exists. It is annoying enough to have to access the internet in order to install your software, but the fact that this is not a \"one time\" process, but something that you will have to rely on anytime you have to re-install your OS or upgrade you hardware is un-acceptable. The idea that you have to buy software that can only work for as long as the company you got it from stays in business and feels like handing out registration codes, is absurd. To use GPO effectively is going to require a commitment of time, which I am happy and excited to make, as long as I can count on being able to use the program. I would not apply myself to a cello that was going to become unusable unless I could contact the website of the person I bought it from every time I put new strings on it or changed bows.

    I use some old software. Sometimes I use software from companies that no longer exist. I also constantly upgrade my computers, buy new hard drives and re-install my operating systems and applications. Then there are times when my hardware breaks- most hard drives these days are only warranted for a year, and they do break, CPU fans and power supplies can go even sooner than that, sometimes taking your motherboard with them. This has not been a problem because programs come with serial numbers. I\'ve bought them. I own them. I don\'t need to worry about the status of a company or my ability to contact their website in order to use them.

    I use some software that is 3 to 5 years old. What if I like GPO so much that I still want to use it in 3 years, but Gary and Native Instruments are gone? Of course NI is going to say that they will \"do something\" in this event, but why should I have to rely on the hope that a company that\'s sinking is going to take the time to send out a permanent registration key? If they\'re going down what few employees they have left will probably have their hands full.

    What if Native Instruments still exists, but has some kind of system failure/data loss and can no longer provide the data I need to register? Why should \"my\" purchased product be dependant on \"their\" security and disaster recovery?

    What about problems with the code itself? If NI\'s registration code has to recognize and identify some kind of hardware in your system, then that means it has only been tested with existing hardware. What happens when you get a new PC? The registration code could potentially fail until they upgrade it. Then instead of just waiting around for Gary to add some new articulations to the violin, during which time I could still be using GPO, I\'m waiting for an upgrade to the code that registers it, during which time I can\'t use it at all. Adding to this is the problem that TWO companies are involved, which allows for the possibility of finger pointing. This would be a VERY big bummer and would bring any kind of resolution to a screeching halt.

    What if Native Instruments still exists, but has upgraded or reorganized their website and put \"handing out registration keys for GPO\" on the low-priority list, so that now it is difficult to find and buggy or just flat out not working when you try to use it. The truth is there are a hundred reasons why an \"internet registration process\" can fail. And if it dose fail what if they decide to put no phone numbers on their website, only an e-mail? Then your stuck in this situation: It won\'t work, and you can\'t contact them. All you can do is hope for a prompt response to an e-mail.

    What if in a couple of years someone at Native Instruments decides to charge for the service of handing out registration keys?

    What if Native Instruments moves on to newer products and simply decides they don\'t want to deal with it anymore? I don\'t want to get attached to software that I can only use \"now\" but maybe not in the future. The future comes up pretty quick for me. I may install GPO today and get so busy that I might not even get to use it for 4 months.

    What if I want to take GPO off a PC then put it back on at a later date? NOPE! That\'s against the rules according to NI and this whole messed up process stops you from being able to do it.

    What if I decide to move to someplace where I don\'t have easy access to phones, e-mail, or the Internet?

    I\'m sure there are many other possibilities that I can\'t think of at the moment that could cause this type of \"NEVER-ENDING company-dependant registration\" to make GPO unusable. Not one of all the software applications I own has this problem. I am not in the business of copying and selling software. I don\'t want to install GPO simultaneously on multiple systems. I just need to be able to install or re-install on a single system at any time that it becomes necessary, regardless of weather I can get in touch with Native Instruments or not. Can anyone offer any suggestions? Or workarounds? If not can anyone answer this question:

    Is it possible to just un-install and re-install GPO every 29 days, indefinitely - thus avoiding the necessity of continually contacting Native Instruments and relying on them to promptly give me the code to make the program work?

    Can this be done with out having to clean out some kind of leftover data in the registry?

    Thanks much for any help, your time is really appreciated - and thanks again to Gary for developing a tool which I hope to use not only for personal creativity but also to get my friends (indi-rock guys) more excited about the beauty of classical instruments and the possibilities of experimenting with them.

    sorry for such a long post!

  2. #2

    Re: Use of GPO tied to Native Instruments website?

    Obviously you don\'t own a lot of software (or at least a lot of new programs released in the last year or two).

    This is just the way of the world -- you can\'t even run Photoshop anymore without it. Now, granted Adobe will probably have a longer future than NI, but it isn\'t a given they will be around in a year or two.

    You can do one of two things: refuse to patronize the companies that use this kind of approach (and more and more of them will, so you will have fewer and fewer choices in software), or, as the old line goes about inevitable violation, relax and enjoy it. I choose the latter.

  3. #3
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    Re: Use of GPO tied to Native Instruments website?

    kavise

    I license the Player from Native Instruments and this registration system is mandatory in order to use their Player


    Hope I\'m not gone in 3 to 5 years (too many good things remain to be done). And don\'t worry about Native Instruments going out of business. The licensing fees I pay them will keep them going for a while. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

    This system of registration, while annoying, is preferred by some to the USB dongles that are appearing in other sample libraries.

    Who knows what the future of copy protection will bring - bio scanners for sample libraries? If anyone has a better solution I would like to know.


    Gary Garritan

  4. #4

    Re: Use of GPO tied to Native Instruments website?

    NI do say they will release a permanent key for their player if they go out of business. In the industry I work in, it is mandatory where we hold code that is critical to a project to place the code in \'key escrow\' which is where a third party organisation has a copy of the code and is mandated to release it under prescribed circumstances (eg us going out of business). Our clients know the identity of this organisation. This means that both us and the third party would need to go out of business on the same day for the escrow agreement to fail. Maybe Gary should use his buying power to persuade NI should hold these \'permanent keys\' in escrow which would give some peace of mind.

  5. #5

    Re: Use of GPO tied to Native Instruments website?

    [ QUOTE ]
    NI do say they will release a permanent key for their player if they go out of business. In the industry I work in, it is mandatory where we hold code that is critical to a project to place the code in \'key escrow\' which is where a third party organisation has a copy of the code and is mandated to release it under prescribed circumstances (eg us going out of business)

    [/ QUOTE ]

    That\'s kind of what I figured, but I never heard anyone else say that.

    also, if anything, there are tons of crackers/hackers out there that probably could make some algorythm for the codes if something like this were to happen, BUT, because of all the crackers/hackers out there, this is why we have to deal with this in the first place [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

    I personally don\'t mind usb dongles. I love my EXSkey =P I can go to a friends house and work on a track there with all my settings and everything authorized. It would be cool if the USB dongle also was an AT LEAST 8 meg flash drive, then I could also put my logic prefs and maybe even my autoload and a few other templates on there =D

    -jamie

  6. #6

    Re: Use of GPO tied to Native Instruments website?

    USB dongles are great until you break them (as I did with my Reaktor dongle). Then you have to physically ship it back to the company, pay them for a replacement (that\'s if they even offer one) and for them to ship it back to you. And in the meantime, your software is useless. My downtime with Reaktor was 3 weeks in total. So this online registration thing is welcome at my house any time [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

    G.

  7. #7

    Re: Use of GPO tied to Native Instruments website?

    Kavise - It\'s quite clear you\'re new to cutting edge software, and certainly cutting edge music software. And clearly you haven\'t lurked in these parts of Northern sounds too long either. SO let me be gentle with you and suggest a few things:

    1) Do a search for \"piracy, dongle, copy protection\" and any other similar word you can think of on NS and you will get hundreds of posts and comments from users and developers about copy protection in general. This issue has divided many a good hearted people on this forum, and while I understand your complaint and argument, so does everyone else - and there\'s nothing any of us can do about it. Gary Garritan can\'t do anything, none of us users can do anything, and frankly Native Instruments can\'t do a whole lot about it.

    2) If you\'re pissed about copy protection, then get pissed at the world of pirates. And get really pissed at anyone you know who lets people copy their software. They are the reason you can\'t move to the dessert with no phone or internet access and plug in your laptop to play with GPO. They are the enemy, not the good folks at Garritan, Native Instruments, or Northern sounds.

    3) Realize before a rant - you are not alone. Thus, the more noise is made, the more deafening. And the more deafening it becomes, eventually a good company may just decide it\'s not worth it. I know a good many Doctors who have quit medicine because the mal practice insurance is so high. And medical insurance companies won\'t pay for services. Who suffers? Everyone. But the doctor, who managed to make some money now fishes all the time, and the patient, who really needed the doctor, now has to start over looking for a good Doc.

    Software is the same. We NEED Native instruments to be in business. Their company alone has created some of the most dramatic evolutions in synthesis in the last 10 years. Their implementation of new technologies has been superb. So please let\'s not run them out of town because we\'re pissed about copy protection. Let\'s get mad at the real people. If we shut NI down, the people who suffer the most will be us, the users. So be kind to your developer.


    That\'s all [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

    J-

  8. #8
    Senior Member
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    Re: Use of GPO tied to Native Instruments website?

    [ QUOTE ]
    2) If you\'re pissed about copy protection, then get pissed at the world of pirates. And get really pissed at anyone you know who lets people copy their software. They are the reason you can\'t move to the dessert with no phone or internet access and plug in your laptop to play with GPO. They are the enemy, not the good folks at Garritan, Native Instruments, or Northern sounds.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    You are probably right in the first place, but sometimes it\'s hard to get the point, talking about copy protection. There isn\'t much software companies could do to protect their work. I am a software developer myself (we only develop for inhouse use, so we don\'t have to think of copy protection yet) and I couldn\'t think of any protection that won\'t be crackable (though I\'m not a master programmer, but I understand the mechanics of it). Some are harder to crack, some are not. Even dongled software can be cracked and is/will be cracked - with the usual exception that proves the rule. So developers have to balance between \"annoyance of customer\", extra-cost for protection development/licensing/distribution, \"crack-simpleness\" and other things.
    I really don\'t know, if I would release a software, what would I do? Release it with protection - this would need extra afford (money) to develop or extra money to license and extra money to maintenance the online-registration and support - so I will likely have to increase prices for my product. If I don\'t use protection, everyone can freely copy my product (and btw. break the law) without any special tool or knowledge. I have to say that for most users it will be of no great difference if they can freely copy a software or if they have to \"not forget to get that dongle-crack from em*le\" - so in most cases there isn\'t much difference whether you protect or not.
    I guess I would release it *with* protection, knowing it can and will be cracked. But it would be more for that \"I have done what has to be done\" feeling, \'cause I know that if anyone is annoyed, it\'s the customer. Pirates are pretty much happy facing a new protection and bored facing an old one. So whatever I do, I likely won\'t get any satisfaction out of my protection, though still releasing it with protection, \'cause I want the feeling that I protect my \"intellectual property\" [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

    But, think of that one: if you don\'t protect your software anymore, pirates are to become extinct [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img] So \"the real enemy\" won\'t be no more ... right? [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

    Malte

  9. #9

    Re: Use of GPO tied to Native Instruments website?

    Every developer knows their software will eventually be cracked, no matter how hard they might try an prevent it. I think, what protection gives them is time. At least perhaps they can recoup their development costs until a flood of cracked software hits the streets. Then perhaps there might be enough honest people left that they might make some profit.

    You can see the difficulty with Altiverb. At first this software was released with the idea of everyone sharing impulses. But now since everyone can get a cracked version, you can’t download impulses from the Audioease website without giving your email that you used to register your software. This is such a desperate attempt to maintain some kind of control. But it is certainly futile. Well, this has been talked to death for at least 20 years now, so I think I’ll just ignore it from now on since there isn’t much we can do.

    Welcome to the wonderful world of music software!

  10. #10

    Re: Use of GPO tied to Native Instruments website?

    What many companies are now doing (unfortunately) is to release \'beta\' software as a 1.0 and let the pirates crack it.

    Then they get it working months or years later. This has the effect of preventing widespread use of the pirate versions because those early versions of the programs stink and don\'t work right.

    This is good for software companies and very BAD for consumers who leagally buy their software.

    I have been witnessing this very scenario with the Sampletank 2 in which the intial release was totally unuseable and is just now becoming stable enough to do some serious work with it. I\'m sure that company sold enough so far to offset losses from pirates.

    I don\'t think discussions of this topic are very constructive here, as it has been pointed out that only pirates are to blame for this mess.

    The rest of us will just cope with it.

    I seriously doubt Gary would leave all his customers in the lurch if he were quitting business.

    My advice: DON\"T worry about it!!!

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