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Topic: "Big sound" with Vienna symphonic samples...

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  1. #1
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    Grenoble - France
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    \"Big sound\" with Vienna symphonic samples...

    I know this is a hot subject but i really want to know how to get that \"big sound\" with vienna symphonic samples. 90 % of the vsl demos i heard are ... can\'t explain clearly... i mean there is not that \"big sound\" or \"big hall\" that we can hear in the East West Symphonic Orchestra Planitum/Gold Demos, this is primary due to the fact that VSL Samples are recorded with a short reverb...

    So , what are your tips to get that very big sound for the VSL Samples ?? EQs settings ? Reverbs system (1 or 2 reverbs) etc etc... for 5000 $ i paid for VSL it should be possible to get a sound near (very neearr) EWQLSO\'s sound...no?

  2. #2

    Re: \"Big sound\" with Vienna symphonic samples...

    There some good discussion on the VSL forums about this if you want to get a look at them.

  3. #3

    Re: \"Big sound\" with Vienna symphonic samples...

    Hi John,

    I guess this is a topic no composer really likes to talk about. Although I do not have any \"tricks\" liks a \"all-sounds-really-great\"-plugin maybe the following tips may help:

    - use the hall and reverb with regard to the positions you place your musicians. If they are sitting in front of the audience use a bit less of these effects and when they are placed very behind you have to use much reverb and hall.

    - as a result of the first one: plan the positions of your orchestra. Make sure that the different groups (strings, woodwinds, drums, etc.) play from different positions. Use the PAN.

    - I guess in a \"big sound\" of an orchestra there are lots of movements and also many notes you don´t realize explicitly. Try to figure this point out on some compositions of John Williams.

    I´m not sure these are \"the tipps\" you wanted to hear but I hope I could help.

    Regards,

    Blackster

  4. #4

    Re: \"Big sound\" with Vienna symphonic samples...

    I can\'t wait to hear what people can do with VSL and GigaPulse. Should be nice. My guess is that while it will be more flexible that EWQLSO, it may not sound as grand. But it may get close enough. We will see, er, hear.

  5. #5

    Re: \"Big sound\" with Vienna symphonic samples...

    [ QUOTE ]
    I know this is a hot subject but i really want to know how to get that \"big sound\" with vienna symphonic samples. 90 % of the vsl demos i heard are ... can\'t explain clearly... i mean there is not that \"big sound\" or \"big hall\" that we can hear in the East West Symphonic Orchestra Planitum/Gold Demos, this is primary due to the fact that VSL Samples are recorded with a short reverb...

    So , what are your tips to get that very big sound for the VSL Samples ?? EQs settings ? Reverbs system (1 or 2 reverbs) etc etc... for 5000 $ i paid for VSL it should be possible to get a sound near (very neearr) EWQLSO\'s sound...no?

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Vienna is not recorded with a short reverb. You should review the VSL site to see their coverage explaining how the library was recorded.

    QLSO is recorded so that the hall ambience is part of the sample.

    If you download some of the Vienna demos and hear them in Altiverb or the Real Time Room Simulator in Samplitude or using Pristine Space from Voxengo (www.voxengo.com). Vienna samples carry some of the ambience of the Silent Stage, but for all intents and purposes, they\'re \"dry\".

  6. #6

    Re: \"Big sound\" with Vienna symphonic samples...

    John

    If you really want to get a big sound with VSL, try mixing in some Project SAM brass and G-Town percussion - both come with their own hall ambience and they augment VSL wonderfully. I know that\'s not what you were really asking about, but, to be honest, the above combination is the best way I know to emulate the fat, gothic sound of EWQL.

    Otherwise, you answered your own question - EQ, reverb etc. Also, as someone else pointed out, it\'s in the orchestration too, so try doubling up instruments to create unison lines, eg clarinet, flute, and oboe together sound like a saxaphone. As you know, concert and film composers have done this kind of thing to achieve lush tone colours since forever, so the same thing applies with a sampled orchestra.

    Cheers
    Heath

  7. #7

    Re: \"Big sound\" with Vienna symphonic samples...

    The main reason some of the VSL demos sound smaller is that people are so polite with the reverb. EWQLSO has lots of natural reverb, and that makes it sound bigger.

    Also, the playing on VSL tends to be more controlled and refined vs. brash and aggressive, and that has something to do with it. But you can still make VSL sound huge with a lot of reverb (and with concerted writing, of course).

    [ QUOTE ]
    Vienna is not recorded with a short reverb.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Well...just to be a niedermeyer, that room does have *some* reverb. I believe the maximum RT60 is .7 secs, which is short! But we don\'t disagree, this is just a picky semantic point.

  8. #8

    Re: \"Big sound\" with Vienna symphonic samples...

    i think if you take wave\'s IR1 and put the right presets and do some adjustments eq-wise you should get a really cool orchestra sound...

  9. #9

    Re: \"Big sound\" with Vienna symphonic samples...

    I\'ve not heard any VSL pieces with the big sound so far, so I guess you bought the wrong library if BIG is what you\'re after. I\'m a big fan of \'larger than life\' sound and I use mainly SAM brass, EWQLSO, KH Strings and lots of custom tweaked samples..

    You\'ll get some hugeness when you master you pieces so don\'t give up until you\'ve pushed them to the limit in your fattest compressors! [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img] (fyi, Waves linear eq, linear multiband compressor and L2 are my basic mastering setup)

    /Tobias

  10. #10
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    Grenoble - France
    Posts
    353

    Re: \"Big sound\" with Vienna symphonic samples...

    thanks to all for your advices [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

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