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Topic: DPDAN's first all GPO piece for fun

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  1. #1

    DPDAN\'s first all GPO piece for fun

    Hi everyone, first I want to thank Gary and all the people that created GPO!
    Just a few facts about me and this piece of music....

    I am a 48 year old recording engineer.
    Until last November, I had never used a computer for anything except email. I used ADATs in the studio. I had three months of piano lessons at the age of seven and the lessons were affecting my school grades, or so my parents thought, so they cut the piano lessons. At the time I was very happy, I didn\'t have to practice anymore.
    About 20 years ago a good friend, Jay Oliver determined that I indeed have perfect pitch. I\'m not bragging because I didn\'t earn or learn this gift. I was surprised, but he wasn\'t. He also said that even though I have perfect pitch, I did not have the ability to instantly name the key when I heard a particular pitch. He said it is because I don\'t play any musical instrument, but if I did, I would be familiar with the key\'s letter. Jay later moved to LA and has produced a gob of albums for groups like The Eagles, he has worked with Chick Korea, and grew up with people around him like Tom Kennedy and Dave Weckl. Some of Jay\'s songs are on Celine Dione\'s CD\'s, Wynonna, Jay Graydon, in fact since I\'m tooting his horn, Jay wrote all of the songs on Jimmy Buffet\'s Off To See The Lizard CD. I even put together Sheryl Crow\'s jingle demo that Jay produced back in the 80\'s for clients such as McDonalds, Six Flags and General Motors. Quincy Jones heard Sheryl\'s demo, and he was the determining factor of Sheryl Crow being where she is today. I have been blessed to be around Jay as well as all the great music and musicians as far back as I can remember. I grew up listening to The Hilos and the Singers Unlimited, and that music is where I learned what modern harmony is all about. I thank God for the gifts, which I believe we all have. Two months ago, I started reading about midi on the web, I still have tons more to learn. I use a Yamaha KX88 controller keyboard for sequence programming/playing. I have already completed an entire song for a client which ended up with 27 midi tracks and 49 stereo audio tracks. Fortunately, I have been recording for over 30 years so learning the \"audio stuff\" when I switched to computer based recording and mixing was simple. At least I didn\'t have to figure all that stuff out at the same time. I really feel for you folks that tackle all this stuff at once, WOW! I too wanted to have something that I could post for my first accomplishment with GPO. I heard a piece by Dvorjak on the GPO demo section, I was so impressed with the beautiful chords and melody that I decided one night to copy it. It ended up taking two days. I cannot sight read at all, in fact I can barely play which is really frustrating. I copied this piece by ear from the demo on Garritan\'s website. If you notice, the tempo is the same, it\'s because I was recording my notes while listening to the demo. I downloaded the demo from the website and imported it into Digital Performer on a stereo audio track, that way, I could reference it in real time. I do not have the music for it, so there is no doubt some stuff missing. One of our generous forum members here was kind enough to upload this demo of mine to his server so I would be able to share it with you all. THANK YOU DARWIN! Man, Dvorjak\'s chords and arranging are so far ahead of his time.

    So anyway hear it is.....

    All instruments are from GPO
    MAC G4 Dual 1.0 with 2 gig ram with two 21\" monitors,
    Dell Dimension 3.06 ghz with 1 gig ram fitted with an RME Hammerfall HDSP 9652 soundcard
    MOTU Micro Express midi interface
    MOTU 828 MKII audio interface
    Tannoy LGM monitors
    Reverb is Altiverb


    ENJOY!!!
    http://dankury.com/music/Dvorak's_Ne...LargoDPDAN.mp3

  2. #2

    Re: DPDAN\'s first all GPO piece for fun

    Dan, Great ear for picking out the parts and very expressively done.
    Check your personal messages.

  3. #3

    Re: DPDAN\'s first all GPO piece for fun

    Hello and welcome to the forum. Haha...another old-fashioned guy. I also started to make music with the computer not until 4 years ago. Before that: old-fashioned live playing and recording on tape-machines. ;-)

    Enjoyed your adaption of Dvorak very much. The only thing what can be improved IMO are the flutes. They sound a little bit static & looped. Draw volume curves.

    Otherwise for someone who can\'t even play the keys an excellent job!

    Cheers!

  4. #4
    Senior Member Styxx's Avatar
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    Re: DPDAN\'s first all GPO piece for fun

    Hi DPDAN and welcome to GPO land.
    Well, it\'s nice to know there is a growing number of us relics from the past jumping on the GPO wagon!
    I am familiar with this work and would agree you have done a very fine job and mix. I do have a question for you since you are a recording engineer. I have noticed with many of users works (including yours) that in the quiet passages of a recording there is considerable digital noise. What in your opinion what causes this and how can it be thwarted?

  5. #5

    Re: DPDAN\'s first all GPO piece for fun

    Styxx, I hope you don\'t mind I jump into the thread.

    If I\'m not wrong, digital noise you are hearing in quiet passages, are not due to digital audio resolution, but due to the level quantization in midi controllers. For example, if you turn up your main volume and play your GPO strings riding the mod wheel in the first low quarter of the wheel, you will hear what I mean. If you combine the Main Volume controller and the Mod Wheel controller, you will obtain better results, because you will be doubling this resolution. But careful adjustings are neded in some extremelly delicate passages.

    DPDAN: Your work is fantastic. I enjoyed very much hearing your version. I find it a very constructive exercise to hear different versions of a piece, made up with the same library. I learn a lot this way.

    Anton

  6. #6
    Senior Member Styxx's Avatar
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    Re: DPDAN\'s first all GPO piece for fun

    No problem! That\'s one of the best ways to learn having more input in on a subject. I will try your suggestion later tonight.
    Thanks

  7. #7

    Re: DPDAN\'s first all GPO piece for fun

    Thanks everybody for reading my loooooong post and listening, I have another gift that\'s also a curse,,,, the gift of the gab [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] can you tell? Gigalove... I know exactly what you\'re talking about with the flutes, especially the \"matching\" vibrato, pretty amazing players huh? [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] \"AFTER\" (dummy me) I finished this thing, I looked at the list of instruments that the demo had, and noticed that there was a piccolo........ if I would have used a piccolo and a flute, I bet it would sound alot better. You\'re also right about the dynamics/feeling of the flutes.
    Styx, thanks for bringing that up,,, and Galvedro, your idea is right on!
    Something that really bothers me, is the fact that this piece is very quiet on the CD and the MP3 is NOT. We also need to remember that MP3\'s do not sound near as good as CD quality (44.1) IMO. When I print all these individual instruments to audio tracks, I always turn the volume up on the Kontakt player, otherwise the level is WAY TOO LOW which will increase background noise, (signal to noise ratio). When I started recording and saw no waveform in the audio track, I zoomed in, sure enough there it was, \"WOW\" I said to myself, turn it up. Since virtually everything we do now is in the \"digital domain\", it is very easy for us to become lazy and assume that there is no more noise and hiss like the old days. We always need to listen critically and make sure that we are producing not only pretty music, but in the process, we also need to keep our ears keen to the noise floor. I always listen with pretty low volume during mixing, but always listen with a microscope \"so to speak\" with the volume turned up on individual parts just to make sure everything is cool.

    blah blah blah right? [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

    I spoke with Karl on the phone last night about harp packets, he\'s a real cool guy! We discovered that we both use GPO, Digital Performer and a Yamaha KX88 keyboard, what a coinsidence huh?

    Thanks everyone!

  8. #8

    Re: DPDAN\'s first all GPO piece for fun

    Thats very nice:: Im hoping to gain the grasp on midi that I hear from you people Im a late starter sigh. The only gripe I do have with almost every demo I hear is its simply too clean. I think the recording industry and multimedia + symphony has placed a greater expectation on our ears as to what its supposed to sound like. I can hear something recorded for a movie, and the same piece in a live environement and it simply does not sound that way . But once again, I think you did a nice job and its good to listen to what others do with sampled instruments as a learning tool.

  9. #9
    Senior Member
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    2,567

    Re: DPDAN\'s first all GPO piece for fun

    [ QUOTE ]
    Hi everyone, first I want to thank Gary and all the people that created GPO!
    Just a few facts about me and this piece of music....

    I am a 48 year old recording engineer.
    Until last November, I had never used a computer for anything except email. I used ADATs in the studio. I had three months of piano lessons at the age of seven and the lessons were affecting my school grades, or so my parents thought, so they cut the piano lessons. At the time I was very happy, I didn\'t have to practice anymore. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]

    About 20 years ago a good friend, Jay Oliver determined that I indeed have perfect pitch. I\'m not bragging because I didn\'t earn or learn this gift. I was surprised, but he wasn\'t. He also said that even though I have perfect pitch, I did not have the ability to instantly name the key when I heard a particular pitch. He said it is because I don\'t play any musical instrument, but if I did, I would be familiar with the key\'s letter. Jay later moved to LA and has produced a gob of albums for groups like The Eagles, he has worked with Chick Korea, and grew up with people around him like Tom Kennedy and Dave Weckl.

    Some of Jay\'s songs are on Celine Dione\'s CD\'s, Wynonna, Jay Graydon, in fact since I\'m tooting his horn, Jay wrote all of the songs on Jimmy Buffet\'s Off To See The Lizard CD. I even put together Sheryl Crow\'s jingle demo that Jay produced back in the 80\'s for clients such as McDonalds, Six Flags and General Motors.

    Quincy Jones heard Sheryl\'s demo, and he was the determining factor of Sheryl Crow being where she is today. I have been blessed to be around Jay as well as all the great music and musicians as far back as I can remember. I grew up listening to The Hilos and the Singers Unlimited, and that music is where I learned what modern harmony is all about. I thank God for the gifts, which I believe we all have.

    Two months ago, I started reading about midi on the web, I still have tons more to learn. I use a Yamaha KX88 controller keyboard for sequence programming/playing. I have already completed an entire song for a client which ended up with 27 midi tracks and 49 stereo audio tracks. Fortunately, I have been recording for over 30 years so learning the \"audio stuff\" when I switched to computer based recording and mixing was simple.

    At least I didn\'t have to figure all that stuff out at the same time. I really feel for you folks that tackle all this stuff at once, WOW! I too wanted to have something that I could post for my first accomplishment with GPO. I heard a piece by Dvorjak on the GPO demo section, I was so impressed with the beautiful chords and melody that I decided one night to copy it. It ended up taking two days. I can not sight read at all, in fact I can barely play which is really frustrating now. I copied this piece by ear from the demo on Garritan\'s website. If you notice, the tempo is the same, it\'s because I was recording my notes while listening to the demo.

    I downloaded the demo from the website and imported it into Digital Performer on a stereo audio track, that way, I could reference it in real time. I do not have the music for it, so there is no doubt some stuff missing. One of our generous forum members here was kind enough to upload this demo of mine to his server so I would be able to share it with you all. THANK YOU DARWIN! Man, Dvorjak\'s chords and arranging are so far ahead of his time.

    So anyway hear it is.....

    All instruments are from GPO
    MAC G4 Dual 1.0 with 2 gig ram with two 21\" monitors,
    Dell Dimension 3.06 ghz with 1 gig ram fitted with an RME Hammerfall HDSP 9652 soundcard
    MOTU Micro Express midi interface
    MOTU 828 MKII audio interface
    Tannoy LGM monitors
    Reverb is Altiverb


    ENJOY!!!
    http://www.tcinternet.net/users/minnesoft/DPDAN%20Dvorjak.MP3



    [/ QUOTE ]

    Deepy Dan, (You\'re not related to Steely are you?)

    I am amazed that you were able to do this by ear...I\'ve never tried that but I\'m sure I couldn\'t. I am really really impressed by what you have done....competitive with one of Gary\'s team\'s original demos (Duncan Brinsmead\'s?.... his name isn\'t acknowledged on the demo site for this piece anymore, as far as I could see.....I had to go back to listen to again it, as I was impressed with it at the time of launch, and I wanted to compare it to yours).

    I would be hard pressed to decide which I liked best which is a great achievement for you as I would seem that you have been dabbling in MIDI for a far shorter time than Duncan.

    Great effort.

    It would be great if you could share some of your engineering skills with us in the future, when you can spare the time.

    Frank

    PS.. please don\'t think I\'m rude but it really helps to read a long post if you put in keyboad returns every few lines, or so, as I have done in the quote above. Otherwise I keep losing my place! [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] It\'s not too important where they are.

  10. #10

    Re: DPDAN\'s first all GPO piece for fun

    Thanks Nicole, I think you\'re right. I know what you mean about the live stuff not sounding the same. I believe that if we talk to alot of people that love music, most people will tell you that they have NEVER heard a real orchestra live. What a shame huh? The \"clean sound\" that you refer to is because we have access to things like EQ (keeping things tonally equal) and volume balance, not to mention imitation reverb that has absolutely improved over the past 5 years by leaps and bounds. Here\'s some food for thought,,,, in a live situation with a real orchestra, it is certainly the directors responsibility to \"balance\" the many different sounds. Sometimes when a certain phrase or group of instruments play too soft or too loud, it is history....., there\'s no way to correct it. In the recording medium we have the luxury of correcting just about everything. I believe that the better we all get at producing music via recorded sound (or whatever we should call it), the more disappointing live performances will become. I know I just stepped on alot of toes, sorry it\'s my honest opinion, I know about opinions yea yea, [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] An audio engineer with exceptional abilites will always enhance a live performance unless of course the group of instruments is large enough that a sound system is not necessary. And there lies the catch, most of the time the sound person should not even be involved with the sound, let alone running it. Thank you very much for your thoughts Nicole.
    Frank...... you\'re next
    you were not rude at all, I now realize that I made reading all that stuff a pain, hopefully this will be better and thanks for pointing that out to me. I am not related to Steely Dan. I choose the DP initials because I love Digital Performer. I could not find the name of the person that did the demo of the Dvorjak piece. He did an awesome job. Until a month ago I had never heard that music. I am always happy to share what knowledge I do have, as long as I can answer it, if I don\'t know I\'ll tell ya. You can bet I will be asking more questions too. I have really enjoyed having access to this forum and all of you, I love this stuff! Thanks everybody!

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