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Topic: help

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  1. #1

    help

    I have been pulling my hair out trying to get an even balance with this for days now. Im a midi newbie and its driving me crazy. How do people rapidly change modulation wheel volumes from one note to the next without an obvious audible change if the notes are right next to each other without a break? Its possible to change one notes volume to the next with real instruments pretty smoothly, but I have trouble with this and modulation. I looked in the piano role thing and tried correcting that way but its starting to look like my year old kid\'s coloring. Secondly, I do not want to achieve the smooth studioish \"multimedia\" sound at all but rather a live feel. I only have the reverb that comes with it and the reverbs in Sonar. Which is better to use? Thirdly how is the balance best maintained? For instance I will record with headphones and think everything sounds fine, then I listen thru speakers and what sounded fine thru headphones sounds yucky out of the speakers where some instruments stuck out were blurred out with the change. Unfortunately the times I get to play around with this are usually late evening so I do not have many choices but headphones.

    Anyway I chose this piece to test the \"singing\" quality of solo instruments. I know I have a way to go to get a good sound and I really didnt touch much near the end of the file yet(well as far as I got recording). Is there any suggestions as to how I might create a more \"live\" sound and maybe some help with reverb/eq/balance? This is quite a different story when trying to do this with midi and im going nuts [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] Here is the excerpt. Please any help in how to improve the control would be most appreciated.

    http://home.cfl.rr.com/delly/Tchai5thexcerpt.mp3

  2. #2

    Re: help

    Nicole,

    First off: Wow! A beautiful realization of the piece. I can actually hear the orchestra breathe. If you are using the mod wheel alone to control the dynamics you are doing a very nice job. I find using the mod wheel a distraction and prefer to draw in the changes by hand. I, too, am using Sonar and find it a very easy tool for editing MIDI.

    Second, the reverb. I personally don\'t care for the Ambience reverb module that comes with GPO. I prefer to use the reverbs available with Sonar, particularly the Lexicon Pantheon plugin. My opinion only.

    Finally, monitoring. Headphones is never a good choice for mixing. Always use speakers. Headphones are fine for getting a general idea of the mix, but fine tuning should be done only through speakers. Also, take your mix to other environments: your home stereo system, a boom box, your car radio, etc. This will give you a better idea of how it will sound in common situations.

    I think you\'re on the right track with your sense of how an orchestra should sound. You\'ll just have to go through a little trail-and-error to figure out what the best method is for you.

    Best regards,
    Steve Barden

  3. #3

    Re: help

    Thanks. Im trying. Ill try the reverbs in sonar. I have version 2 because it was cheap to buy.

    Well I have been listening to Orchestral all my life and playing piano about as long as I can remember. Its this midi stuff that is new to me and I listen to demo songs then say to myself, jeez this sounds easy to do. Then I try it and its just not like a real ensemble. It actually, I am finding takes alot of work and tinkering to make something sing. I am beginning to think midi is a completely new instrument and should be treated with the same respect as such. Knowlege in this area is power I guess and the more you do it the more proficient you become, least im hopeing. I came in late into this area(sample/computer recording).

    Ill try different reverbs from Sonar for now. I have read about impulse stuff and am curious about that. Thing I found when adding the bundled reverb is it sorta in a way muds the sound. Maybe im just not using a good setting. Granted I do not want to go for that clean crisp soundtrack sound at all. I would rather it sound more like a live recording(to bad there are no coughs , bows hitting bodies , ect ect ! lol).

  4. #4

    Re: help

    Compliment! Your tune carried me away what does not happen often not to speak when a tune is done with a library. Please let us hear the rest of it when it\'s done!!

    I did not understand exactly what your problem is...but I can tell you if I play & record something almost every note - concerning velocity/overlaps/volume curve - is afterwards edited graphically. The more you invest in that finetuning the better the result will be.

    [listening again]

  5. #5
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    Re: help

    Nicole, (are you of the female persuasion?) this is your lucky day....I usually use headphones! [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

    I\'m actually very impressed with the realism of your mockup.....I haven\'t listened to this piece for many a year and had forgotten how lovely it is. I think that maybe the french horn should have a tiny gap between the notes in places....it just sounds too legato sometimes. That\'s the only thing I could criticise (and it\'s only my opinion remember) in an otherwise very convincing performance. You are worrying too much..........you seem got hold of the principles of MIDI tweaking by the sound of it....more like a seasoned tweaker than a Newbie. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

    Very impressed.

    Frank

  6. #6

    Re: help

    Thanks all. Yea I might end up re-playing the horn, but to be honest I initially did have more gaps and then I picked up one of my live recordings CD of this piece(I always prefer LIVE as in \"in concert situation\") and I changed my mind. The soloist was very fluid. But again the interpretations of how something is performed will ofcourse vary.

    To answer the question, I put it in my signature because I get asked this all the time lol

  7. #7
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    Re: help

    Nicole, (yes you are female....excuse me for asking)

    I haven\'t listened to the real thing so I am not able to do an AB comparison. It was only my impression of realism. I\'m sure that if you\'ve listened to the CD then your rendition will reflect that.

    Another point is that the interpretation by various conductors and orchestra can change a piece out of almost all recognition. I fell in love with a piece I came across years ago, \'Judex\' from Mors et Vita by Gounod. It was by the Liverpool Symphony orchestra and I just loved it. It\'s not a popular piece so I was delighted to hear it announced on the radio (years later- just by sheer chance) and looked forward to hearing it as it was to be played by the London Philarmonic Orchestra.

    When the piece was transmitted my gast was flabbered. To my ears it was hardly recognisable, I\'m not exaggerating, and if it had been the first time I heard it I wouldn\'t have wanted to hear it again. I learned a lot from that experience.....It could be that the Liverpool version was less \'correct\' but nevertheless to my ears it was greatly superior.......blah.. blah.. blah......

    Frank

  8. #8

    Re: help

    I understand where you are coming from. I have some versions of studio style recordings of Wagner Overtures and some live ones. Im not sure how it works with the pre meditated recordings, but to me it sounds as if its often too perfect and sometimes I get the impression that they purposely make certain instrument classes suddenly JUMP out(probably a fader thingy) at you.

    I watched a program once a bit back about this exact thing and was sorta appalled. They actually showed them cutting and splicing different waveforms of various takes to make the whole. This is only my opinion ofcourse but I have always held a pretty strict reservation about Symphonic music and performance(soloist music) and I find cutting up a piece of music like that just not natural.

  9. #9
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    Re: help

    Nicloe, (yes you are female....excuse me for asking)

    I tend to agree. A lot of stuff, from food to music, is far too processed these days. A lot of music is much too clinical. One of the keys with MIDI tweaking is to change everything which is computer accurate so that it is within human capability...timing, pitch, tone etc...

    Francis Belardino (I think) actually offered some studio noises for mixing in with the music. What we really need is some coughing samples, sampled with various voices, pitch etc..... probably a 1 Gb library should do it.

    Frank

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