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View Poll Results: Where do you see the future of sampling?

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53. You may not vote on this poll
  • Physical Modeling of/and Actual Sample Data

    36 67.92%
  • Terrabytes of Articulations (loads of actual sample data)

    12 22.64%
  • Other (please feel free to make a prediction)

    5 9.43%
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Topic: POLL: The future of sampling?

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  1. #1

    POLL: The future of sampling?

    I brought this up during a chat yesterday, but wanted to get a wider opinion...

    Where do you guys see the future of sampling heading? (or where would you like to see it heading...?)

    The mixture of physical modeling and actual sample data, to "fake" the numerous articulations and nuances that could never practically be recorded?

    Or collections that make VSL look like a Casio GM set in size? Mountains upon mountains of samples as storage becomes easier, cheaper and quicker?

    Or something else, something we haven't seen yet?

    Please leave a comment as to why you voted the way you did, as I'm interested to hear why you believe its going that way (or at least know your personal preference as to which you prefer...)
    Alan Lastufka | www.BelaDMedia.com
    Producer/Artistic Design | Content Producer

    20 Things

  2. #2

    Re: POLL: The future of sampling?

    Hopefully the first step will be to make the "super libraries" (VSL, SWB, EWQLSO) more manageable and playable. I'd like to see developers concentrate on making their products more user firendly before they make them any bigger.

  3. #3

    Re: POLL: The future of sampling?

    Quote Originally Posted by wes37
    Hopefully the first step will be to make the "super libraries" (VSL, SWB, EWQLSO) more manageable and playable. I'd like to see developers concentrate on making their products more user firendly before they make them any bigger.
    I agree, please stop enlarging libraries.
    I don't want to transform my studio in a big data center to use a library.

    I hope in more concentration on "how" a not is played and not "how long" it is.

    One of the advantage of sample libraries is the chance of orchestrating in a few time and to try musical passages easily imho, and I can't do with 1.500 articulations and 1 gig only for 1st violins.
    My hope is a new Vitous-like library, same soul, same size, new recording and a bit more programming.

    My 2 cents.
    Luca

  4. #4
    Senior Member
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    Re: POLL: The future of sampling?

    In the guitar world physical modeling is definitely a superb trend. Having 36 GB of guitar articulations in a sample library doesn't necessary equate to a more realistic performance. I have yet to hear a guitar sound accurate with all of its inherent subtle nuances intact. It's not the samples - its the way those sample have to be programmed by the sound designer.

    Modeling has brought the world the Line 6 Variax. Listening to the mp3s one wonders how difficult it would be for a keyboard player with a $10k library to emulate the sounds so easily made with this instrument.

    Modeling is the future.

  5. #5

    Re: POLL: The future of sampling?

    PMing by far. It will be interesting to see what Garritan brings up with his PM'd stravardi that is currently in development.

    Its getting rather rediculous with the size of VSL requiring multiple drives/computers in order to use it effectively. Then there is the physical limitations of hard disk speed itself.

    Also with samples only, you can only 'play' the samples as they indeed. For instance take Bjorks live version of Hyper-Ballad with a string ensemble. Some of the sounds she has them play can not be made on any current library without going and sampling those particular phrases. With PMing it might be possible to program the interface so you could play an instrument in a very particular & unique way much like she has done.

    Led Zeppelins lead guitarist is another playing his guitar with a bow for some odd sound No amount of general sampling is gonna allow you to do that, but perhaps PMing could..

  6. #6

    Re: POLL: The future of sampling?

    I keep buying the bazillions-of-articulations libraries, but I keep cannibalizing them and reprogramming the cannibalized parts, always striving to come up with a slightly better "does it all" patch for wind control. Some of the cannibalizing involves extracting and then recombining the "attack noise," "upper partials," etc., from the samples -- sort of a poor man's analysis/resynthesis.

    To be honest, I've never gotten around to learning how to use any of my large, multi-articulation libraries the way it was meant to be used.

    But it's all good. I foresee evolution on parallel tracks, with the soon-to-be-terabyte libraries eventually offering better AI tools to plop the right sample into the right spot without your having to rummage for it. That's why I voted "other."

    As intellectually satisfying as the "modeling" or "signal processing" approach is, if the number of input controls gets too large, then it becomes as daunting as rummaging through a million-sample library. So I predict it will evolve AI "player models" to go with it.

    Greg

  7. #7

    Re: POLL: The future of sampling?

    Could anyone post some links to learn about physical modeling?

  8. #8

    Re: POLL: The future of sampling?

    kitekrazy,

    http://www.enlightenedsystems.com/vl/physmodl.htm

    Physical modeling is being used already in some sample libraries such as GPO, it basically takes actual samples and uses that data to "fake" the in between articulations.
    Alan Lastufka | www.BelaDMedia.com
    Producer/Artistic Design | Content Producer

    20 Things

  9. #9

    Re: POLL: The future of sampling?

    Quote Originally Posted by kitekrazy
    Could anyone post some links to learn about physical modeling?
    Here's one that I re-read from time to time:

    http://www.enlightenedsystems.com/vl/physmodl.htm

    Keep in mind, though, that this page pretty much represents the hard-core academic perspective on "true" physical modeling. (The godfather of physical modeling, Julius O. Smith, a professor at Stanford, has called sampling "rigid" and "ugly.") A lot of the categorical statements in this piece about the deficiencies of sampling are disproven every day right here on this forum, so take it with a big grain of salt. I'm pretty sure Alan means "physical modeling" in the broadest possible sense, which could include manipulating samples realtime in a way that "feels" like a real instrument.

    Greg

  10. #10

    Lightbulb Re: POLL: The future of sampling?

    You can model an acoustic sound with an analog modular synth - it just needs to be a fairly simple sound (like a bell) or a really, really big modular system. So, in essence, any complex resonance simulation can be used to mimic the behaviors of the sound of an instrument, and just about any form our sound that can be controlled in a way that emulates the "real thing" can be thought as some form of "model", however crude. When people say "physical modeling" in the modern synthesis term - they are typically thinking about purely algorithmically generated sound, with no audio recordings of the original sound.

    To me, the hybrid approach seems to be the most reasonable. An accurate recreation of an instrument with a particularly wide range of articulations requires not only a lot of data computation and throughput, but also a large degree of control. Many people's frustrations at large libraries and unwieldly articulation sets stem from the very nature of the instruments themselves. Anyone who is groused by large sample sets will likely meet frustration at the myriad parameters that must be controlled simultaneously in a PM sound. Anyone who has tried to get a convincing sax solo from the Yamaha VL1 would know what I mean. It requires a responsive wind controller like the WX5 and a skilled, trained performer to exact a convincing performance.

    The real key IMNSHO is providing intuitive control of the sound and placing it in a convincing acoustic space. In a classical music or film scoring context, we all have the beginnings of an idea of what that means.
    Houston Haynes - Titan Line Music

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