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Topic: Piano pedal FX during note release

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  1. #1

    Piano pedal FX during note release

    Hi, all!

    There is a real piano's feature that many digital pianos can reproduce, but not kontakt 1.5.3.

    After you release a piano key :

    - when you press sustain pedal down before the end of normal release, the note come to sound at his current release volume, with a natural decay, as long as i maintain the pedal down, till the end of sample if needed (but of course, never longer)

    - when I stop to press pedal down, the note come to his normal release

    - but if I press it down again rapidly before end of normal release, the pedal FX start again at current release volume.

    - and this effect doesn't work after the note is completly released, of course.

    I tried many things to recreate this pedal effect with kontakt, but no one can satisfy these four conditions above.

    The internal piano sound of my kurzweil PC88 can do this pedal FX. To show you how this sounds, i slicy layered it with our (with Olivier) current light patch of the Galaxy SD.

    example at http://jazzphoton.free.fr/Demos%20mp...%20release.rar

    Someone can tell me if Gigastudio 2.5 or 3, Halion, EXS24 could reproduce this feature?

    Thanks

    Xavier Bidault

  2. #2

    Re: Piano pedal FX during note release

    Didn't Michiel Post solve this with layering the pedal up and down samples, playing both ( half polyphony ) and dynamically switching between them ?

  3. #3

    Re: Piano pedal FX during note release

    No, it's not this problem i'm talking about. The one you mention (realtime repedaling) has been solved a long time ago. And i use this in my patches.

    This one is different. It's an FX that happen after you released the piano key, and while the sound is dying (the release in ADSR).

    Do different tests on a real piano, and compare to sampled pianos. There is a big difference.
    Few digital pianos do it (kurzweil (my PC88), roland (my RD600)).

    I tested many many things in kontakt, but without any success. And the soluce would be to control the release time in the ADSR by the pedal (CC64), and really in real time. But in kontakt, once the note is played, you can't modify its ADSR, only before or after it's played, but not while.

    Can this problem be solved by other soft samplers (GS2.5 or 3.0, Halion 2 or 3, EXS24, MachFive...)?

  4. #4

    Red face Re: Piano pedal FX during note release

    Hi,

    Gigastudio 2.54 do this : "Piano release mode" in instruments properties.

    incredible and powerfull feature !

    Regards,

    Olivier

  5. #5

    Re: Piano pedal FX during note release

    As long as we're discussing sampler limitations, how is a sampler ever going to imitate string harmonics? For instance, if you hold down a C and play the G above it, you'll get a distinctive high ring as long as you continue to hold the C down. That's an oversimplified example, but it affects a real piano from top to bottom...
    Mark

  6. #6

    Re: Piano pedal FX during note release

    Quote Originally Posted by NeoDavinci
    As long as we're discussing sampler limitations, how is a sampler ever going to imitate string harmonics? For instance, if you hold down a C and play the G above it, you'll get a distinctive high ring as long as you continue to hold the C down. That's an oversimplified example, but it affects a real piano from top to bottom...
    Mark
    Yes, that is a behavior I would like to see implemented above other current "limitations". The high-end Roland Digital pianos can do it... but since we are already maxing out nowadays CPU's with the current functionality, maybe it will take a couple of years before the hardware will catch up... or potentially we need a sampler program that is dedicated to simulating piano behavior; is this not what Synthogy is trying to accomplish?

  7. #7

    Re: Piano pedal FX during note release

    Quote Originally Posted by PianoMan
    or potentially we need a sampler program that is dedicated to simulating piano behavior; is this not what Synthogy is trying to accomplish?
    Hi,

    Gigastudio have the "Piano release mode". But an overlap function for repeated keys with the pedal down would be nice in Gigastudio 3 (Halion 3 have this feature)

    Sure, Synthogy will accomplish that ! the software engine is dedicated to simulating piano behavior !

    (The Grand was unable to do that...)

    And the internal Piano sound of my Kawai Mp9000 reproduce already the pedal behaviour (Within release) too !




    Regards,

    Olivier

    www.audiolivepro.com

  8. #8

    Re: Piano pedal FX during note release

    Quote Originally Posted by xav93
    Can this problem be solved by other soft samplers (GS2.5 or 3.0, Halion 2 or 3, EXS24, MachFive...)?
    Hi,

    Yes, it can be. Gigastudio 2 can already do this with natural effect (realtime + pedal effect within release (mix/layers menu). Now i believe that Gigastudio 3 will be so far superior to all samplers if they integrate the overlap function of Halion 3.

    Kontakt have still some limitations. An overlap function like Halion 3 is welcome. (In Halion 3 you don't need to have a voice group per Key)

    http://forum.cubase.net/forum/Forum24/HTML/001279.html


    I don't know if Kontakt 2 will be able to do this...

    Regards,

    Olivier

  9. #9

    Re: Piano pedal FX during note release

    Bump

  10. #10

    Re: Piano pedal FX during note release

    Olivier,

    I can't seem to find this "Piano release mode" in instruments properties" in GS 2.54. Is this in the editor? I would be most appreciative if you could point me to this.

    Thanks,
    Freya

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