Help please with Sonar Midi and envelopes

[Sepheritoh]

I'm using Sonar 3.1.1 PE. Sometimes I record the midi controllers CC1 with my keyboard and sometimes I find it easier to enter midi shapes with Sonar's envelopes tool. It is easy to convert any midi events in Sonar into envelopes by using the "Convert midi to shapes" command on the edit menu.

Now here is the problem I find: How do I convert the envelope shapes back into midi controller events?

One workaround I found is to save the file and then save it again as a midi file. When I import the midi file back into Sonar the envelopes are nicely converted into midi envelpes, but isn't there a shorter way around this somewhere?

PS. So why does this method not work? One problem I found with my method above is that I forget to save the file the next time using "Save As". By just using the "Save" command I save the file next time again as a midi file and in the process I loose all my GPO settings etc.

[billp]

I'm not sure why you would need to convert the shapes to midi controller events. Whether they are shapes or discrete midi controller events, they have the same effect on GPO's instruments. A mod shape and mod events both result in CC01 events being sent to the Kontakt player on the selected channel.

[William West]

Steph, I prefer to apply my cc1 data after I have recorded my midi track. For me this works best as I am always changing my mind as to how I want to express the line. I will either record automation using the mod-wheel over my midi track or simply draw in the controler in the piano roll (set chanel to "ALL Chanels").
I made the mistake of layering cc1 data which resulted in pops and other nasty things (I was recording mod-wheel and then drawing in cc1 to make changes - what a mistake!)
By drawing in or recording I can either draw in revised cc1 data or delete the mod-wheel recording and re-record the mod-wheel to achieve the desired effect.
This is what works for me - I'm sure others may have options as well.
Best of luck,
William

[Sepheritoh]

I'm not sure why you would need to convert the shapes to midi controller events. Whether they are shapes or discrete midi controller events, they have the same effect on GPO's instruments. A mod shape and mod events both result in CC01 events being sent to the Kontakt player on the selected channel.

As William also explained it is essential to have controllers in one one of the modes (CC data or envelopes), not both.

As William, the reason why I want to work is controller data is, so I can make finer adjustments in pianoroll view, where I sometimes want to edit notes (eg. drag start & finish points around when they have gaps or overlaps due to sloppy playing when recording). To edit the envelopes to fit in with the edited notes I have to switch to the trackview each time.

[billp]

Sepheritoh,
I've been doing some research on this problem on the SONAR forum. There are a couple of options, not great, but they do work. They both involve sending the midi track with shapes to a midi out and re-recording the track on a separate midi track, kind of like a bounce.

1. Get and install MidiYoke, which a virtual midi driver. Send the track with the envelopes to MidiYoke and back into a second midi track in SONAR.

or

2. Send the track with the envelopes out to an external midi device--your synth or controller, then back to SONAR to the second midi track via the external device's MIDI THRU (not midi out).

I was successful with both of these approaches. The best thing, though, would be a "Convert Shapes To MIDI" option. I will put in a feature request for this on the SONAR forum, but I don't expect any quick results, since the SONAR 4 beta is well along.

[Sepheritoh]

Thanks. I have not try that method yet. I will give it a try.