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Topic: Sounds changing in GigaSampler when controler changes presets

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  1. #1

    Sounds changing in GigaSampler when controler changes presets

    Hi,
    I\'m very new to GigaSampler, but haven\'t spotted the answer to this yet. I\'ve created a somple performance file for GigaSampler that has just two libraries loaded. A piano on MIDI 1 and an organ on MIDI 2.

    This works fine, except when I change presets on my controller (a Studio Logic SL-1100) I suddently get new sounds on MIDI 2, 3 & 4. The sounds I get are other instruments from the gig file that had the organ.

    If it makes any difference, the organ being used is from Sonic Implants / GigaSamples and is one of their B3 libraries. The gig file actually contains 5 instruments.

    When I make this change on my controller, I get sounds 1, 2 & 3 from the gig file when I told my performance file I wanted organ #4.

    (I hope this was readable!)

    Basically, how do I stop GigaSampler from from responding to the preset changes from the SL-1100?

    Thanks,
    Mark

  2. #2
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    Re: Sounds changing in GigaSampler when controler changes presets

    I don’t think you can keep GSt from responding. You need to keep you controller from sending program changes.

  3. #3
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    Re: Sounds changing in GigaSampler when controler changes presets

    Hi Mark,

    > \'extract\' just the instrument I want

    In the QuickSound window (that looks like Explorer), there will be a plus sign in front of gigs that have multiple instruments. If you expand the gig with the +, you can load only the instrument you need.

    Patch changes in GSt are somewhat of a slippery slope. To prevent duplicated numbers, GSt will assign different patch numbers if needed. If you happen to load instruments in a different order, they might get assigned different numbers. Since you’re just dealing with one instrument, you should be able to send the correct patch number from your controller. Remember that GSt has zero based numbering.

  4. #4

    Re: Sounds changing in GigaSampler when controler changes presets

    Are you using a sequencer?

    you can usually set sequencers to Filter out Program Changes either on the input or output stage.

    If you aren\'t doing any music that will involve program changes mid way through then I\'d jsut switch it off, in either your controller or your sequencer.

    Program Changes can get even more frustrating with the introduction of Bank Changes.

    Try to get a Roland XP keyboard to send more common Proram Changes out. What a pain that is.

    ------------------
    Really...I am an Idiot

  5. #5

    Re: Sounds changing in GigaSampler when controler changes presets

    Bill & King Idiot,
    Thanks for the responses. Bill - your suggestion is is exactly what I did. King Idiot - Interesting idea - If PTLE can filter, then possibly rewiring the order of my devices might help.

    Here\'s the picture. This is a Hammond B3 library from Sonic Implants.
    http://www.sonicimplants.com/sonicgiga/organ.htm

    This library provides (apparently) 5 different versions of the sounds. I open up the Quick Sound window, exactly as you suggest, and I grab just one and place it in Port 1 at MIDI channel 0. I play my controller and the portions of the keyboard set to transmit on MIDI 0 cause this sound to play. Cool.

    Then I hit a preset change on the controller. I look at GigaSampler and I now see sounds in Port 1, MIDI 0, 1, 2 & 3.

    If I put it at MIDI 1 to start with, then it overwrites 1, 2 & 3, leaving 0 alone. However, nothign I do stops it from changing from the sound I load to the first sound in their library.

    As best I can tell, it doesn\'t overwrite other patches if they are using any of those positions, but it always goes away from the part of the B3 library I want and replaces it with the first one in their set. Not cool.

    Anyway, I\'ll look at the manual for the keyboard controller and see if there is a way to turn off program changes. This was the solution given by Sonic Implants via email today.

    Cheers,
    Mark

    <BLOCKQUOTE><font size=\"1\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Bill:
    Hi Mark,

    > \'extract\' just the instrument I want

    In the QuickSound window (that looks like Explorer), there will be a plus sign in front of gigs that have multiple instruments. If you expand the gig with the +, you can load only the instrument you need.
    <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


  6. #6

    Re: Sounds changing in GigaSampler when controler changes presets

    Hi,
    OK, I think I figured out what\'s going on, although I don\'t exactly know what to do about it. It\'s not a Program change as was previously suggested. I\'ve disabled that change out of the controller and shown that it isn\'t the cause.

    All instruments in GigaSampler are given Bank and Patch numbers. The 5 instruments in the B3 library are no different, and were given the following settings:

    B3 - Mod Triple = Bank 0, Patch 0 (MIDI 1?)
    B3 - Mod Double = Bank 0, Patch 1 (MIDI 2?)
    B3 - Fast Rotor = Bank 0, Patch 2 (MIDI 3?)
    B3 - Slow Rotor = Bank 0, Patch 3 (MIDI 4?)
    B3 - Rotor Off = Bank 0, Patch 4 (MIDI 5?)

    (The MIDI X? in parens are my understandign of how a Patch normally maps to a MIDI channel.)

    Now, this is what I think is happening. If I load Slow Rotor into the MIDI Channel 2 position, and then change the preset being used on the controller, the controller is sendign out some sort of Patch change. GigaSampler is then responding to that Patch change and writing Slow Rotor into MIDI Channel 4 because that\'s it\'s \'natural\' position from the way it\'s programmed.

    The problem with all of this is that I want to control my patches, and not have them predetermined by the library manufacturer. I\'m not doing general MIDI. If I want to use 6 odd libraries for a piece of music, why shouldn\'t I be able to put them on whateve MIDI channel I want them on?

    I still hope someone can help me understand how to make this work!

    Thanks,
    Mark

  7. #7

    Re: Sounds changing in GigaSampler when controler changes presets

    Bill,
    Thanks for the reply.

    Is this the standard way people deal with this problem, but turning off program changes? Maybe I\'m approaching the use of GigaSampler wrong. Seems like I might want program changes for other synths on my MIDI network.

    I was wondering that night if there is any easy way to sort of \'extract\' just the instrument I want from the Sonic Implants B3 gig file, so that it simply wouldn\'t have the other sounds to junp to. There\'s 5 in there, but I only need one for now.

    Or is this just going off the deep end?

    Maybe I can get my MIDI interface on the GSt box to filter program changes?

    Thanks,
    Mark


    <BLOCKQUOTE><font size=\"1\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Bill:
    I don’t think you can keep GSt from responding. You need to keep you controller from sending program changes.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


  8. #8
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    Re: Sounds changing in GigaSampler when controler changes presets

    Hi Mark,

    This is definitely a confusing issue.

    Patch numbers and MIDI channels are not related. I think your controller must be sending a patch change on channel 4.

    In the GS universe, there’s no overall numbering scheme the way the is for, say, general MIDI. If you look at almost any gig file in the editor, you see that they are all set up as Bank 0, Instrument 0, 1, 2, etc. The instrument number is the same a “patch number”.

    Now, when you load all these instruments into GSt, it would be a BIG problem if they all had duplicate numbers. GS deals with this by assigning unique patch numbers when needed. Because of this, a loaded instrument might have a different number than the one you’d see in the editor. If you loaded your instruments in a different order, they would likely be assigned different numbers.

    Confused yet?

    Because of all this, it is VERY important to save you setup as a Performance. This will preserve all the channel and patch assignments. It’s this Performance you want to load when you start your session, rather than having you controller send a Bank/Patch message. Perhaps you could have the controller send the Bank/Patch to your other gear before you load the Performance in GSt.

    Hope this helps more than hurts.
    Bill

  9. #9

    Re: Sounds changing in GigaSampler when controler changes presets

    Bill,
    Thanks for responding. Definitely it helps more than hurts, even if I don\'t have a solution yet.

    I did save my setup as a performance, and every time I reload it comes back just fine.

    I sort of knew that Patch numbers and MIDI are not actually related. However, when you open GSt and load an instrument in what I\'ll call \'Position 1\' (the top, left available position for putting an instrument) that position responds to MIDI channel 1. For this reason I see them as related in GSt. (Maybe that can be changed in GSt, making position 1 respond to MIDI 13, for instance, but I don\'t see any need to right now.)

    The other thing that I\'m puzzling over right now is the difference between a gig file, and the instruments that are contained in the gig file.

    This \'problem\' happens whether I load the full gig, or just an instrument, but it happens in different ways.

    If I load only the instrument that has Bank 0, Patch 3 into position 1 of GSt, then when I do the patch change on the controller I see a new copy of the instrument sitting at position 4, and responding to MIDI channel 4.

    However, if I load the gig file into position 1,and then do the patch change, I see instruments in 4 positions - 1, 2, 3 & 4. I find this interesting since the gig file actually has 5 instruments, why doesn\'t it load all 5?

    This evening I\'m going to try recording all of this stuff that must be coming out of my controller in my sequencer (PTLE) and see if I can figure out what\'s actually getting sent. In the meantime, a great deal of thanks to you and the others that have helped me along so far.

    With best regards,
    Mark

  10. #10

    Re: Sounds changing in GigaSampler when controler changes presets

    Hi guys,
    Mostly solved! (I think!)

    I sat this evening and just recorded MIDI and sat hitting buttons until I think I found it.

    There was an extra place in this beast where it still was sending a program change. I removed that and things now seem a lot better.

    Thanks for your help.

    Regards,
    Mark

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