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Topic: Curious (illegal?) structure in a Gigainstrument

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  1. #1

    Curious (illegal?) structure in a Gigainstrument

    Maybe one of the developers on this forum can help me understand a seemingly impossible structure in several instruments which came in a library I recently bought and which, in fairness to the developer, shall remain nameless until I resolve this issue.

    I\'m trying to edit the library to be more useful to me and find the following problem dimension. The instrument has:

    -- 3 bit dimension with \"layer\" as the assigned control source

    -- 1 bit velocity split

    -- stereo dimension


    From what I can gather this shouldn\'t be possible. If I press the Stereo/Mono button I get a window allowing me to select Stereo or Mono, and Stereo is already selected. If I press OK, I get a message saying that I \"must reduce the layer count to no more than 4 layers\". There is no way for me to exit this window and maintain Stereo.

    -- Everything\'s ok if I select mono.
    -- Or I can reduce the layer count to 4
    -- Or I can choose another control source, such as mod wheel (which is different, presumably because the dimension is now a \"switching\" rather than \"layering\" dimension and takes less resources.

    I\'ve tried to understand the instrument by substituting my own samples for the ones in the instrument. My samples are merely spoken numbers... \"one\", \"two\", \"three\"... etc. etc. In this way I can hear what happens when I vary the controller settings and different samples become audible.

    I am still not exactly sure what is happening with the assigned dimensions and control structure. There are null samples used to provide locations in the dimension matrix that don\'t add unwanted sounds. It\'s hard to explain, but I\'m sure you know what I mean. For some reason, in my \"substituted\" instrument, the places that had null samples seem to remain silent, even with my spoken samples, and even though I remove the 96db attenuation that the null samples originally have.

    I\'ll continue probing these instruments and will have a better idea of what\'s happening (I think... though there\'s something happening here that may not be predictable).

    I\'m hoping someone out there can help me understand how such a structure might have been created, and if I\'m just wrong about the \"illegality\" of these instruments. It would seem that the 32 splits are totally used up with

    -- 2 bit layer dimension
    -- stereo
    -- 1 bit velocity dimension

    This = 4x2x2 = 16. Somehow layering must take more dimensions, but I\'m not clear exactly on the number of splits layering takes vs switching.

    Puzzled,
    Gabriel

  2. #2

    Re: Curious (illegal?) structure in a Gigainstrument

    Gabriel,

    Contact the developers of the library and ask them about the structure of the instrument in question. I’m sure they’ll be willing to discuss such things with any registered owner. It’s highly unlikely that you are observing any “illegal” structures. For one thing, I’m unaware of any ways to circumvent the dimensional choices given by the Instrument Editor. It’s more likely that you are observing a workaround to sidestep a potential dimensional restriction or solve a particular problem. Go to the source.

    Tom

  3. #3

    Re: Curious (illegal?) structure in a Gigainstrument

    Tom,
    Thanks for your input. Yes, of course the source would be the best place to ask, and I\'ve done so, but I think the guy is really a musician at heart, and is struggling to maintain some balance between supporting his library and playing music. I was able to contact him once, by phone, and he was congenial and knowledgeable (though he did say that he did not do the GS programming himself, but hired someone to take care of that aspect of the library due to the learning curve involved). I\'ve had no luck reaching him this time, and I\'m impatient to get on with my programming, so I thought I\'d ask here.
    I had been wondering if there were some tools made available to developers that could have resulted in the strange structure, but you\'re saying no.
    I\'m curious to hear your opinion about the particular question I had regarding the # of splits and stereo. When I start from scratch, I can create
    2 bit layer
    1 bit velocity
    stereo

    That IS the limit... right?
    So how can I have an instrument with
    3 bit layer
    1 bit velocity
    stereo.
    Gabriel

  4. #4
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    Re: Curious (illegal?) structure in a Gigainstrument

    > That IS the limit... right?

    No, it\'s not.

    Do this. Open GS Edit. Create a new blank gig. Create one new stereo region. Create on 3 bit dimension split.

    You will find that you now have available a 1 bit layer (or anything else) split.

  5. #5

    Re: Curious (illegal?) structure in a Gigainstrument

    Gabriel,

    Bill is correct (as you’ve probably already confirmed by doing his little experiment). Keep in mind that you have a total of 5 bits to work with. Stereo takes up one of those bits, leaving you with 4 for everything else. Anytime you try to add anything that consumes bits, the Instrument Editor will let you know how many (if any) remain to be used.

    Developers have the same dimensional limits in the Instrument Editor as consumers and, I think it’s safe to say, we both want more.

    Tom

  6. #6

    Re: Curious (illegal?) structure in a Gigainstrument

    Tom and Bill,
    I understand what you\'re saying about the 5 bits. Just try this, however

    create a new region
    create a 3bit layer dimension Notice this is a layer dimension, not mod wheel .... that\'s what seems to be the killer.

    now make a 1 bit velocity split
    now try to change to stereo....
    That\'s when you get the message to reduce the number of layers to 4 or less (2 bits or less).. and that\'s why I believe layer dimensions are treated differently than the other types of layers

    Am I missing something, or were you just not trying to achieve the same structure that I\'m trying to make.
    Gabriel

  7. #7

    Re: Curious (illegal?) structure in a Gigainstrument

    Tom and Bill,
    In fact, I can\'t even get past this:
    1 make a stereo region
    2 make a dimension ... ASSIGN LAYER AS THE CONTROL SOURCE

    Now you only have the option of 2 bits... there is no way to get 3 bits for the layer dimension if you\'ve started with a stereo region.

    I\'m not exactly sure what this implies. I would think that a bit is a bit, no matter how you use it, and 1 bit for stereo and 3 for layer still only makes 4.

    Can you explain this somehow?
    Gabriel

  8. #8

    Re: Curious (illegal?) structure in a Gigainstrument

    Gabriel,

    Now I think I see part of your problem anyway: you seem to want to create an instrument with 8 \"layers\" (3 bits). The maximum number of \"layers\" is 4. That\'s hard-wired into the structure. You\'ll see this clearly if you open the crossfade editing window by pressing the button in the lower right hand corner of the Mix/layer tab. Is that on the right track to figuring out your problem?

    Tom

  9. #9

    Re: Curious (illegal?) structure in a Gigainstrument

    Tom,
    Of course!!! That\'s it!!!! You get only four layers. I knew this all along but didn\'t make the connection.

    What\'s throwing me off is that my un-named library (and this is pretty annoying because it cost big bucks and I\'m spending so much time trying to unravel why it is uneditable) has precisely that structure in it.

    There are gigs which, when you open them up, show a 3 bit dimension (8 splits) and the control source is layer. It\'s what I was trying to say from the beginning. I don\'t see how this could possibly have been created... I can\'t create it myself, and when I try to edit the gig... at least this aspect of it, it either crashes or doesn\'t allow me to change (for example to 4 layers). I can select 2 bits (4 layers) but the selection seems to be ignored. Eventually after I fool around enough, the editor tells me I\'ve done an illegal action and crashes.

    I\'ll keep trying to contact the developer, and even feel a little as if I\'m betraying him though I haven\'t named him here. Basically, the sounds of the library are terrific, but the programming seems inadequate. Maybe it\'s just a bad CD. I\'m hoping there\'s a decent solution to this.

    At any rate my email hasn\'t been answered, and I haven\'t been able to reach him by phone. I\'ll keep trying, and I thank you for your help.
    Gabriel

  10. #10
    Senior Member
    Join Date
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    Re: Curious (illegal?) structure in a Gigainstrument

    It could be that this library is converted from another format.

    Also, I\'m having trouble understanding what the urgency is about. What\'s the big deal?

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