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Topic: Can you have true Catholic Taste?

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  1. #1

    Can you have true Catholic Taste?

    Ok. Bear with me, it's an interesting one. It seems to me that people who know and are passionate about music fall into two camps. Those who think you can learn to appeciate and understand all genres, and those who like some things and just can't get into others. I'm afraid I'm certainly in the second camp. If we stick to the 20th C , Music that I love tends to come from the following genres:
    Minimalism, Blues, Country/Americana, Ska, Neo-Classical, Electronica, Hawaiian (seriuosly!) Bluegrass, Rock/Pop.

    Then there is stuff that I've tried hard to get to grips with but ultimately leaves me cold. This is stuff like Jazz, Reggae, Hip-Hop and it's related Genres including most dance music, Atonalism, Opera.

    Is it possible to like all of that stuff. My experience is seems to be that some kinds of music are mutually exclusive. I actually used to like Jazz and played in a jazz band for a few years. I stopped liking it when I started appreciating country. I'm can't see how it's really possible to passionately love one piece of music by Schoenberg and another by Steve Reich at the same time. One undermines the core values of the other.

    Or am I just being like Homer Simpson, who said that there was only so much space in his brain and something had to go every time he learned something new. 'Like, when I took that home wine-making course and forgot how to drive'
    "A composer is a guy who goes around forcing his will on unsuspecting air molecules,often with the assistence of unsuspecting musicians"

  2. #2

    Re: Can you have true Catholic Taste?

    I'd like to have Catholic taste, but I'm a Unitarian.

    I must disagree with you about Schoenberg and Reich and "undermining core values" of each other. I actually view them as similar, at least to the extent that both composers are deeply concerned with the structure and the intellectual underpinnings of their music. So, yes, I believe it is possible to appreciate both composers, and for similar reasons.
    Dan Powers
    www.danielpowers.info

    "It's easier to be a composer than it is to compose."
    --Ray Luke (1928-2010)

  3. #3
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    Re: Can you have true Catholic Taste?

    Quote Originally Posted by deadbeat
    Or am I just being like Homer Simpson, who said that there was only so much space in his brain and something had to go every time he learned something new. 'Like, when I took that home wine-making course and forgot how to drive'


    This is an issue that I hope Hardy,Tom and others will be discussing.

    Gary Garritan

  4. #4

    Re: Can you have true Catholic Taste?

    Quote Originally Posted by Garritan


    This is an issue that I hope Hardy,Tom and others will be discussing.

    Gary Garritan
    My $0.02 echoes an interesting article on jazz education that you can find at

    www.chuckisraels.com

    For those who don't know, Chuck Israels was the bassist in the Bill Evans Trio ca. 1962-1965. He also was a music director for many shows and ran a national Jazz repertory orchestra in NYC. He is currently near GPO headquarters, at WWU in Bellingham, now making his mark as a Jazz educator.

    His writings on Jazz education are, IMNSHO, spot-on as to how to develop jazz proficiency. While I am not a full-time jazz performer or jazz teacher, I find CI's approaches useful in the playing I do and with the few students I take.

    If yer mind's too open, everything will fall out!!

    Jim
    Jim Williams
    Professor of Capitalism
    N9EJR
    Indianapolis Brass Choir
    All Your Bass Sus&Short Are Belong to Us.

  5. #5

    Re: Can you have true Catholic Taste?

    Quote Originally Posted by Garritan


    This is an issue that I hope Hardy,Tom and others will be discussing.

    Gary Garritan
    Setting the stage for Tom and Hardy
    Nicole Davis

  6. #6

    Re: Can you have true Catholic Taste?

    Nicole,

    I won’t do it! I will not be enticed into another confrontation. Not even if you put a very large piece of chocolate in the middle of your violent, pugilistic ring. Uh . . . what kind of chocolate would it be? No, I tell you!! I don’t CARE what kind of chocolate, I still won’t do it! Never. But (just out of curiosity), would it be that really dark, semi-sweet, extremely smooth chocolate that melts in your mouth like . . . STOP IT, STOP IT! This is insidious. I’m going back to my programming. Hardy will be all alone standing there with his boxing gloves and will be able to say anything he wants – unchallenged. By me anyway. Now look what you’ve done: I’m hungry.

    Tom

  7. #7
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    Re: Can you have true Catholic Taste?

    Christ Tom...I haven't even bothered to retort.....but I will eventually....when I have the time. In the meantime try to look at the 'Fast show' videos. NICE!!

    Tom, I respect you ....and will always remember you for your Easy Winners.....got you!!!

    Frank

    PS....Hey...This isn't fair...you are 7 hrs behind the genuine (and only) British Greenwich Meantime!! and are always in a position to respond!! Where is the top in this topsy turvy (British) world???

    Why is it that the music I don't like is carp?? I heard the Bernstein (The Palms ) on the UK London 'Proms' a few days ago.....talk about dire!!!! (I just couldn't find the remote quick enough!!) Gives a whole new meanig to 'dire'. He should have called it a day after 'West Side Story' never a patch (commercially) on 'My Fair Lady' or 'The Sound of Music'......Sorry!! .......... Hey, but you know that in your (Easy Winners) heart.............

  8. #8

    Re: Can you have true Catholic Taste?

    Quote Originally Posted by danpowers
    I'd like to have Catholic taste, but I'm a Unitarian.

    I must disagree with you about Schoenberg and Reich and "undermining core values" of each other. I actually view them as similar, at least to the extent that both composers are deeply concerned with the structure and the intellectual underpinnings of their music. So, yes, I believe it is possible to appreciate both composers, and for similar reasons.
    Hmm, maybe that's a bad example; I'm not sure. I'd say that structure is not really part of Reich's music at all. He really tried to do away with structure altogether and replace it with a process. The structure is only an emergent phenomenon. With Schoenberg the stucture comes first and the notes get filled in later.They do seem diametrically opposed to me; two very different critiques of the music of the previous few hundred years.
    One thing is for sure, we all hear music differently. To most people alive today a 7th chord is a pretty mellow consonant chord with which you could end a piece with quite happily. You don't feel an intense urge for that chord to resolve like composers once did. So by listening to more chromatic music you have lost a kind of gut reaction appreciation of the music of, say, Beethoven.
    I seriously think that when I started listening to Hank Williams my brain got used to hearing 4 note chords and harmonically simpler stuff, and the Miles Davis I used to like sounded like a chaotic mess. I'm not saying one is better than the other.
    "A composer is a guy who goes around forcing his will on unsuspecting air molecules,often with the assistence of unsuspecting musicians"

  9. #9
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    Re: Can you have true Catholic Taste?

    Quote Originally Posted by deadbeat
    Hmm, maybe that's a bad example; I'm not sure. I'd say that structure is not really part of Reich's music at all. He really tried to do away with structure altogether and replace it with a process. The structure is only an emergent phenomenon. With Schoenberg the stucture comes first and the notes get filled in later.They do seem diametrically opposed to me; two very different critiques of the music of the previous few hundred years.
    One thing is for sure, we all hear music differently. To most people alive today a 7th chord is a pretty mellow consonant chord with which you could end a piece with quite happily. You don't feel an intense urge for that chord to resolve like composers once did. So by listening to more chromatic music you have lost a kind of gut reaction appreciation of the music of, say, Beethoven.
    I seriously think that when I started listening to Hank Williams my brain got used to hearing 4 note chords and harmonically simpler stuff, and the Miles Davis I used to like sounded like a chaotic mess. I'm not saying one is better than the other.
    You're right Deadbeat.....give me Hank Williams any day.....Miles Davis is (was) carp! (Is he still living?) Who knows....Who cares.....certainly only a tiny minority....so that's OK isn't it????

    Enough pandering to minorities......

    Frank

  10. #10

    Re: Can you have true Catholic Taste?

    I can sometimes find something interesting in many styles, but I don't think someone can like every style. For the official 'Tell us where you stand or we'll kick you in the nuts" record:

    I like some:
    -Classical period music
    -Romantic period music
    -Impressionism period music
    -melodic jazz
    -Rock, or to be precise; ROCK!
    -Pop (though not the bubbke gum kind)
    -Some country (providing I'm drunk enough)
    -Electronica
    -Ethereal stuff

    I can't stand most:
    -Rap
    -Atonal music
    -Speed Metal
    -Disco
    -Did I mention Rap?
    -Anything with a banjo in it
    -Punk
    -Nu Metal
    -Modal Jazz
    -Music that is weird for the sake of being weird
    -Tejano
    -And this might get me killed; Jimmy Buffet

    Oh, and I also hate Rap.

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