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Topic: Artistic/Autistic Genius needs help!

  1. #1

    Artistic/Autistic Genius needs help!

    Yes, the title is generally accurate. My problem...I can’t count. Actually I can, but not while composing music. Which is a problem if you want to use a notation program. And I do. So I’m looking for an effective work around.

    In the past I used either a keyboard sequencer (an ancient ESQ-1) or a dedicated sequencer (MC-80/PMA-5). In all cases, you can’t get the timing wrong...you place notes sequentially and if the tempo needs adjusting, you just insert a new tempo (or change an existing tempo). But with notation programs, if you just place notes that ‘sound right’ (God forbid), if the timing is wrong, then you end up with notes piling up on top of each other...very bad.

    So...basically what I want to do is to place notes sequentially and have them play back sequentially. And with Overture, if you don’t correctly fill each measure with correctly timed notes (something I’m not currently able to do), then notes that were supposed to be sequential turn out to play as chords. And, graphically, you end up with a mess, as polyphonic measures are now in different (graphic) locations.

    So...I would like either an Overture workaround, some other notation program that will let me do this, or some help learning how to fill each measure with correctly timed notes (without destroying whatever little inspiration I have left).


  2. #2

    Re: Artistic/Autistic Genius needs help!

    Please don’t take this the wrong way, but I don’t think you can do what you’re wanting to do. The measure is a concrete ‘unit of measure’ as far as notation goes. The notes depending on the ‘time’ value fall in the measure in a set fashion. For example a measure in 4/4 time could contain any of the following; 4 quarter notes, 8 eighth notes, 16 sixteenth notes, 2 half notes, or one whole note and on and on or any mix of these notes. This is inherit to the system. That is where sequencing differs from notation programs. You are far less limited to the theoretical structure of music and are free to plop down notes of any duration just about anywhere. In a notation program you are pretty much bound to the structure or you will end up with a mess. I don’t know of any work around other than learning the structure. Don’t misunderstand me and I certainly understand your plight but I don’t understand your draw to notation since you have a sequencing background. If you are wanting to learn notation then I recommend you grab a concise theory book and learn the structure since in notation you are bound to it for the most part. Maybe I misunderstand what you’re asking for, or I have it all wrong, but this has been my experience thus far.

  3. #3

    Re: Artistic/Autistic Genius needs help!

    No, you have it right. I'm drawn to notation because I have a high level visual ability (I'm in the process of finishing up a portfolio of visual art) and I see music visually...or at least music's structure. But with my neurological deficits, my counting ability is vershtunkena...ie; non-existent.

    But thanks anyhow.

  4. #4

    Re: Artistic/Autistic Genius needs help!

    Imagegod, the only other idea I could give you (don’t know if this is doable in Overtue, I’d have to tell you tonight after I get off work and can look into it) would be to come up with some crazy time signature like 4000 over 4 (or 4,000 quarter, 2000 half, or 1000 whole notes per measure) so that you never run into the end of the first measure. You see, that is where you’re running into problems. You can only fit so many notes into a measure and then after that the notation program starts making corrections to the stray notes, oft times in the form of odd chords. Let me look at Overture tonight and I can give you a definitive answer. This may not be possible in any notation program, but it’s the only idea I’ve got right now. There may be a way to turn off the function in Overture that tries to fix the stray notes and I’ll look into that as well.

  5. #5

    Re: Artistic/Autistic Genius needs help!

    Dude (can I call you dude?) that would great! Take my word, I really appreciate your help. I can't begin to tell you how much I love music (well...maybe I can, but I won't) and it kills me that I can't just plop notes on a staff, put measures where I want, and have it play back like a sequencer.

    When I'm rich and famous (and I will be), writing a notation program for the masses is one of my dreams...everyone should be able to write music with little or no technical skill...Just a desire and a dream!

    If I could get a notation program to play it like I see it, I'd be in seventh heaven.

    Thanks for the interest!

  6. #6

    Re: Artistic/Autistic Genius needs help!

    Have you tried using the piano roll view?

    Rather than using traditional notation, it graphically presents all the notes at a time. Longer notes look longer, and you can make them longer or shorter by dragging. If they come in too early or too late, you can also drag them to the appropriate time. You can see complex chords, melodies and progressions in this view. If you look around on the Internet for information on using a piano roll view, you'll find a lot. To access it in Overture, click on 'Window,' then 'Graphic view.' You'll see a big grid where the notes will be. You can look at all the instruments at once, only one instrument, can zoom in or out as much as you like, and many other options to configure the way that works best for you.

    If you're trying to create printable sheet music as a result, then Overture may not be the program for you. It has a quirk that if you create notes in the piano roll, they don't show up as regular notes on the staff. Cakewalk, for example, has a piano roll that is almost identical to Overture's but properly transfers the piano roll to the staff (on the other hand, Cakewalk doesn't make as professional-looking music, but that's another issue).

  7. #7

    Re: Artistic/Autistic Genius needs help!

    I appreciate your interest, but that kind of defeats the graphic benefits of a notation program. I have an MC-80 and a PMA-5 and they work fine...but they don't fulfill my vision like a notation program does (or would if it worked like I want).

    But thanks!

  8. #8

    Re: Artistic/Autistic Genius needs help!

    Here is a thought:
    No easy way to get this one out so I'll jump in the middle somewhere....I think Error is on to something...I would also suggest using a sequencer to achieve what you desire to do.

    In a sequencer, though there are grids for timing, they are not as ridged as using a notation program where each measure is an individual unit that must be completed fully. By using either the piano roll or the notation view you can insert notation freely, not neccesarily keeping to meter.

    I personally prefer the piano roll as it allows for so much flexablity. In Sonar it has been pointed out that the notation options are very limited, this is true to a certain extent. When I desire to have a professional score I save my project as a mid. file and import it into Finale (notation program) and add punctuation etc.

    If the sequencing program that comes with GPO has a notation view, try it and see if this is something that may work for you.

    I hope this helps.
    Autistic Too in Atlanta

    We are the makers of music and the dreamers of dreams.

  9. #9

    Re: Artistic/Autistic Genius needs help!

    I think this may be your workaround. The included Cubasis VST has a notation function built in. It leaves a little to be desired and don't expect it to work perfectly, but you can slap down note after note after note and not worry about things like time signature. This may be the interim answer to your problem. I looked at Overture and the highest time signature you could give would be 99 over 1 or 99 whole notes per measure. This could work, I don't know the duration of your songs though. That translates to 396 quarter notes per measure. This may not solve your problem though, just prolong the time between headaches. If you can deal with the limitations (read erroneous rests and ties) in Cubasis VST then that may be one way to do this. If you have a more current sequencer that has a notation function, like others have said, use it and see what It'll do for you.

  10. #10

    Re: Artistic/Autistic Genius needs help!

    Thanks again for all your help. You guys are the best!

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