• Register
  • Help
Results 1 to 8 of 8

Topic: Cameleon and Sample Licensing

Share/Bookmark
  1. #1

    Cameleon and Sample Licensing

    If you are familiar with the Cameleon 5000, you'll know it has the the ability to analyse samples and create synthesized instruments from them.

    What's the legal position for this with regard to patches that may have been created by analysing a sample I'm wondering?

    Once I've created a patch using samples I own the license for, can I distribute it to other people (the patch that is, which does not contain the original sample)? More importantly, do I need to check that patches created by others that I'm using have clearance for any underlying samples that may have been analysed to create the patch?

    It seems a bit of a grey area to me. Since the Cameleon patches are unique and self contained and being totally synthesized in real time, this seems it could logically be OK. On the other hand, most sample agreements talk about the samples being used for 'original music production' by the licensee only, so therefore using them to create a synthesizer patch that may be distributed to someone else would not seem to be OK.

    Any view from developers / users on this? Thought is was worth checking before I dive in and start using this excellent synth in a big way.

    Steve

  2. #2

    Re: Cameleon and Sample Licensing

    I'm neither a developer or a lawyer, but I think that would come under 'derivitive work' and therefore not be legal

    OTOH, using them in your own compositions should be no problem whatsoever.
    Dasher
    -------
    It's all about the music - really. I keep telling myself that...

  3. #3

    Re: Cameleon and Sample Licensing

    Greetings Dasher,

    Thanks for the reply. The developer of Cameleon agrees with you It has to be the safest way to use Cameleon for sure.

    Steve

  4. #4

    Re: Cameleon and Sample Licensing

    Yes, that would be derivitive work and is not ok to make and sell or give away or what ever. If you use our samples and tweek them and use them for yourself, it's ok with me anyway
    Worra
    SampleTekk

    Arf, arf, arf...

  5. #5

    Re: Cameleon and Sample Licensing

    Yep, there seems to be a consensus that it's a 'derivative work'.

    Actually from my point of view it's more a case of being careful about patches I download created by other people. The developer of Cameleon has confirmed that all the patches that ship with Cameleon, and that are available through Camel Audio's website, are 'clean', so no worries there.

    Good luck with the Black Grand by the way Worra

    Steve

  6. #6

    Re: Cameleon and Sample Licensing

    Has everyone who is weighing in on this question _heard_ what Cameleon does to samples?

    As a recent owner of the softsynth, I have had the joy of playing around with it quite a bit, and I can guarantee you that a resynthesized version of a given sample using Cameleon really does not sound that close to the original. I mean, how many partials (harmonics, if you like) does Cameleon use to resynthesize? 128? How many are there in a Worra sample? 128,000?

    I for one do not think that Cameleon is in anyway able to do what a sampler can do. It doesn't make a copy of a given sound - it allows you to start from a given sample, but what you get is a whole new, albeit much less rich sound.

    A sound resynthesized using Cameleon should not be derivitive. We'll have to wait another 5 years before we get resynthesis technology that crosses that line...

  7. #7

    Re: Cameleon and Sample Licensing

    Quote Originally Posted by Ned Bouhalassa
    Has everyone who is weighing in on this question _heard_ what Cameleon does to samples?

    As a recent owner of the softsynth, I have had the joy of playing around with it quite a bit, and I can guarantee you that a resynthesized version of a given sample using Cameleon really does not sound that close to the original. I mean, how many partials (harmonics, if you like) does Cameleon use to resynthesize? 128? How many are there in a Worra sample? 128,000?

    I for one do not think that Cameleon is in anyway able to do what a sampler can do. It doesn't make a copy of a given sound - it allows you to start from a given sample, but what you get is a whole new, albeit much less rich sound.

    A sound resynthesized using Cameleon should not be derivitive. We'll have to wait another 5 years before we get resynthesis technology that crosses that line...
    I certainly hear what you are saying. It makes sense, which is why I asked the question in the first place. I suppose a question would be.........how many partials does it take before it DOES become derivative?

    Given that the developer of Cameleon doesn't advise it, and one sample developer at least wouldn't be happy about it, I'm personally going to play by those rules. I can get all I want from Cameleon basing my own patches either on the 'clean' patches that come with it, or with samples I hold a license for. That just limits me to about 50 billion different sounds I think

    Steve

  8. #8

    Re: Cameleon and Sample Licensing

    When you post these type of legal-ish questions publically, you always will get the same response from the developers which is "no"

    Any time that you are using a copyrighted piece of sound to derive a new sound from, you are risking legal consequences if you turn around and sell or distribute such sounds.

    The biggest question would be, is that sound recognizable by the person who originally created it? If you have mangled it to the point that not even its mother would recognize it, then I don't care what anybody says, you're clear....but it really has to be unrecognizable from the source so you have to be really objective about it. Developers really don't like this, it essentially creates a revenue stream for you that is partially based on their work (very partially since you really have to work pretty hard at changing it enough to be unrecognizable). At that point it really falls into an ethical debate rather than legal. Shoud you not do it not because it's not legal but because it's not ethical? We can go on and on about this.
    >>Kays
    http://www.musicbykays.com
    Music Composition for Feature Films, Television and Interactive Entertainment

Go Back to forum

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •