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Topic: It's gonna be ugly

  1. #1

    It's gonna be ugly

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    To give you an idea how disgusted we are with Bush, rock icons are risking their carrears to get Bush out. I love it. Power to the people. Meanwhile the dirtiness is just beginning.

    Updated: 10:09 PM EDT
    McCain Condemns Anti-Kerry Ad
    Republican Senator Calls Attack 'Dishonest and Dishonorable'

    Sen. John McCain said a campaign ad criticizing John Kerry's military service was "dishonest and dishonorable." The White House declined to comment.
    Watch Video: Anti-Kerry Ad

    · Talk About It: Post | Chat

    WASHINGTON (Aug. 5) -- Republican Sen. John McCain, a former prisoner of war in Vietnam, called an ad criticizing John Kerry's military service ''dishonest and dishonorable'' and urged the White House on Thursday to condemn it as well.

    The White House declined.

    ''It was the same kind of deal that was pulled on me,'' McCain said in an interview with The Associated Press, comparing the anti-Kerry ad to tactics in his bitter Republican primary fight with President Bush.

    The 60-second ad features Vietnam veterans who accuse the Democratic presidential nominee of lying about his decorated Vietnam War record and betraying his fellow veterans by later opposing the conflict.

    ''When the chips were down, you could not count on John Kerry,'' one of the veterans, Larry Thurlow, says in the ad. Thurlow didn't serve on Kerry's swiftboat, but says he witnessed the events that led to Kerry winning a Bronze Star and the last of his three Purple Hearts. Kerry's crewmates support the candidate and call him a hero.

    The ad, scheduled to air in a few markets in Ohio, West Virginia and Wisconsin, was produced by Stevens, Reed, Curcio and Potham, the same team that produced McCain's ads in 2000.

    ''I wish they hadn't done it,'' McCain said of his former advisers. ''I don't know if they knew all the facts.''

    Asked if the White House knew about the ad or helped find financing for it, McCain said, ''I hope not, but I don't know. But I think the Bush campaign should specifically condemn the ad.''
    "It was the same kind of deal that was pulled on me."
    -Sen. John McCain

    McCain, chairman of Bush's campaign in Arizona, later said the Bush campaign has denied any involvement and added, ''I can't believe the president would pull such a cheap stunt.''

    White House spokesman Scott McClellan declined to condemn the ad. He did denounce the proliferation of spending by independent groups, such as the anti-Kerry veterans organization, that are playing on both sides of the political fence.

    ''The president thought he got rid of this unregulated soft money when he signed the bipartisan campaign finance reform into law,'' McClellan said. A chief sponsor of that bill, which Bush initially opposed, was McCain.

    In 2000, Bush's supporters sponsored a rumor campaign against McCain in the South Carolina primary, helping Bush win the primary and the nomination. McCain's supporters have never forgiven the Bush team.

    McCain said that's all in the past to him, but he's speaking out against the anti-Kerry ad because ''it reopens all the old wounds of the Vietnam War, which I spent the last 35 years trying to heal.''

    ''I deplore this kind of politics,'' McCain said. ''I think the ad is dishonest and dishonorable. As it is, none of these individuals served on the boat (Kerry) commanded. Many of his crew have testified to his courage under fire. I think John Kerry served honorably in Vietnam. I think George Bush served honorably in the Texas Air National Guard during the Vietnam War.''
    straw poll

    Retired Adm. Roy Hoffmann, head of the Swift Boat group, said they respected McCain's ''right to express his opinion and we hope he extends to us the same respect and courtesy, particularly since we served with John Kerry, we knew him well and Sen. McCain did not.''

    McCain himself spent more than five years in a Vietnam prisoner of war camp. A bona fide war hero, McCain, like Kerry, used his war record as the foundation of his presidential campaign.

    The Kerry campaign has denounced the Swift Boat Veterans for Truth, saying none of the men in the ad served on the boat that Kerry commanded. Three veterans on Kerry's boat that day - Jim Rassmann, who says Kerry saved his life, Gene Thorson and Del Sandusky, the driver on Kerry's boat, said the group was lying.

    They say Kerry was injured, and Rassmann called the group's account ''pure fabrication.''

    The general counsel for the Kerry campaign and the Democratic National Committee sent television stations a letter asking them not to run the ad because it is ''an inflammatory, outrageous lie'' by people purporting to have served with Kerry.

    Hoffmann said none of the 13 veterans in the commercial served on Kerry's boat but rather were in other swiftboats within 50 yards of Kerry's. The group claims that there was no gunfire on the day Kerry pulled Rassmann from a muddy river in the Mekong Delta and that Kerry's arm was not wounded, as he has claimed.

  2. #2

    Re: It's gonna be ugly

    It's time to pull out the footage of Bush having with a goat, I think.

  3. #3

    Re: It's gonna be ugly

    I think that was a donkey

  4. #4

    Re: It's gonna be ugly

    Possibly both? The witnesses are in jail in Guantanamo Bay.

  5. #5

    Re: It's gonna be ugly

    I heard they got out under the new work release program for Taliban.

  6. #6

    Re: It's gonna be ugly

    So, Bush really sucks eggs for all the reasons pointed out here and various places but the only hope is this strange JFK wannbee Kerry. Pretty sad state of affairs if you ask me.

    I know this is typical mud slinging but are we going to say these veterans are all paid off liars? Sorry, but there is something way off kilter about that little 4 month tour de farce with 3 papercut purple hearts and then using them to get home earlier than the required year long tour. Simply put, the fact that he only served 4 months instead of year but he still has all his limbs says it all to me. You don't come home early from Vietnamm in one peice for the most part without pulling something.

    However, in looking at this, I must say that I don't see him being cowardly though. Going home early was probably more about moving on with his life plans or to go protest the war or something like that. Simply put, he did volunteer for combat missions and it seems he was eager to put a few notches in his belt and get some combat experience. (Its a Skull & Bones thing to try to prove one's self in combat by the way) I think he had bravery and was willing to take some risks but it seems like it was for his resume. Otherwise, he would have stuck out the year long tour of duty. The injuries he got never took him out of service. He was treated and sent back in. Yet these injuries that diddn't take him out of commission were used to returm home early.

    In the end, none of that really bugs me anyway other than just being very strange. The allegations made against his fellow soldiers (on record, congress, film, video, books etc...) when he got back is the real sore spot. He even says he commited some of these attrocities himself. That makes him a war criminal if he did these things or a liar if not. He never reported these attrocities he allegedly witnessed when he was supposed to when on duty as an officer. These false allegations helped contribute to the bad attitude toward the soldiers coming home, increased their misery in POW camps and helped the resolve of the enemy of that time.

    Like I say, its Skull & Bones candidate #1 or Skull & Bones candidate #2. I really think in the end, the same overall agenda will be carried forward either way we go. Until we can get a viable third party going, we are screwed.
    For example, look at the selection of Edwards. (who I kind of like by the way)
    I knew he would be picked a while back. (possibly as the lead on the ticket at one time) He was the only real VP contender that was invited to the Builderberg get together. Leaks from the meeting said Edwards was the guy for VP and at one point, talk of the lead if Kerry couldn't start connecting with the people. It definitely gives the impression that a bunch of rich globalists who are not accountable to us, have alot of influence on who will lead us.

    The people will never be allowed to actually have any say in thier leadership at the highest levels. They can choose between two of the establishment choices though at least. Third party guys do not have a prayer under the current system though. (15% phone polls to get into the debates. Polls ask who..Bush or Kerry? Pick one. Unless you insist on your own to mention a third party, they won't get counted. DNC & RNC guys pick the polling companies and handle the debate process. How nice of them to handle all that for us!)


  7. #7

    Re: It's gonna be ugly

    I agree that it's not a great choice, but there are still pretty big differences between the two of them.

    And I wish I could convince the 3% who are still for Nader of that.

  8. #8

    Re: It's gonna be ugly

    "And I wish I could convince the 3% who are still for Nader of that."

    Well there you go. That proves my case about the hopelessness of any 3rd party ever having a chance.

    (I prefer libertarians myself)


  9. #9

    Re: It's gonna be ugly

    I looked at Kerry's senate voting record today. It's pretty impressive. I'll bet that most Kerry bashers haven't really looked at his voting record. A far cry from you know who. I think he's gonna be a great president.

  10. #10

    Re: It's gonna be ugly

    Got a link, Nick?

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