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Topic: The honeymoon over?? (re:Sonar 3)

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  1. #1

    The honeymoon over?? (re:Sonar 3)

    Anyway, I tried the Sonar 3 demo and loved it and bought it recently. So now I've got it and am trying to actually record a piece with GPO with it, and it works fine but when I export this happens - http://www.endresnet.com/GPO080704.mp3

    Instruments cutting out. This same thing happened sometimes with Cubasis and it would drive me crazy, but it's actually much worse and more frequent in Sonar. And whereas in Cubasis I could get three instances and 24 instruments going together (albeit sometimes with instruments cutting out here and there), with Sonar I'm getting "dropouts" after only about a dozen instruments. Yikes. Dropouts are worse than the instruments cutting out in Cubasis thing, because everything stops and you can't go any further.

    I guess I didn't test drive the demo hard enough, but I hate it when demos of programs won't let you do everything the program should do, as in exporting. Let me see what it can do, completely, and then I'll know if it's really going to work for me the way I need it to.

    Okay, I'm done venting. Now, out of the problem and into the solution. Any of you Sonar 3 users have any idea what is causing this and how to remedy it?

    Thanks much,
    Shaz
    www.EricHermanMusic.com
    - Cool Tunes for Kids -

  2. #2
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    Re: The honeymoon over?? (re:Sonar 3)

    Shaz,


    Something is strange. Many are getting 8+ instances with Sonar and great performance. There's no reason why performance would be worse with Sonar. It could be your configuration or other variables. Give me a call or email and we'll troubleshoot this and get you much better performance

    Gary Garritan

  3. #3
    Moderator/Developer Brian2112's Avatar
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    Re: The honeymoon over?? (re:Sonar 3)

    Hi Shazbot!



    This is very fixable but there are a lot of variables. I use Sonar 3 and can load the whole sucker in memory plus more plugins and effects and have no dropouts. There are a few things to check into.

    Does it drop out only when you bounce or when you play back as well? If only during bounce, then untick the check box called “fast bounce” when you bounce to audio. If it does this even during midi playback, you probably have a latency issue. If you are using ASIO, kick the buffers higher. If not ASIO, then move the latency slider to the right. It will work! A lot depends on your system though, but it shouldn’t take that many horses to get it all going well. Keep playing with it... you will get it going.

    Brian
    "So what if some parts of life are a crap shoot? Get out there and shoot the crap." -- Neil Peart
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  4. #4
    Moderator/Developer Brian2112's Avatar
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    Re: The honeymoon over?? (re:Sonar 3)

    ...or you could call or email Gary...LOL (we posted at the same time)
    "So what if some parts of life are a crap shoot? Get out there and shoot the crap." -- Neil Peart
    Hint:1.6180339887498948482 Φ

  5. #5

    Re: The honeymoon over?? (re:Sonar 3)

    The dropouts were happening during playback, but actually, I just got up to 16 instruments and only had the CPU going at about 50%, and the difference was that I used one of the included Cakewalk reverbs as opposed to Ambience. So I'm probably fine in terms of the # of instruments, but I'm still having the instruments cutting out really badly on export. Obviously, this is not an issue of the software, because I had the same thing going on (though not nearly as bad) when using Cubasis. The thing is, with Cubasis even during playback I would have instruments drop out in funny ways, but that wasn't happening in the Sonar demo so I thought it would be better on export, too. But not being able to export in the demo...

    Is there a more ideal way to export everything than to just use File > Export? I've read through the entire manual (and the included Sonar 3 Power book) over the past few days and I seem to recall something particular about converting MIDI to audio, but now I can't seem to find anything. Back to the Help files...

    I'm loading GPO as a DXi through the Synth Rack. Not sure if there's a better way than that.

    Ah, another peculiarity is where is my controller data? I saw the mod wheel info being recorded, but can't seem to find it to edit. I recall something about this on the forum a while back, so I'll check the archives on that one.

    Gary, if I can't figure it out any better, I'll give you a call tomorrow. Actually, I will anyway... I want to know if your refrigerator is running.
    www.EricHermanMusic.com
    - Cool Tunes for Kids -

  6. #6

    Re: The honeymoon over?? (re:Sonar 3)

    Yeah, there is a better way. You need to wrap GPO as a VST in Sonar. Cakewalk has a VST wrapper available. I seem to recall some issues with the DXI version.

  7. #7

    Re: The honeymoon over?? (re:Sonar 3)

    Quote Originally Posted by Joseph Burrell
    Yeah, there is a better way. You need to wrap GPO as a VST in Sonar. Cakewalk has a VST wrapper available. I seem to recall some issues with the DXI version.
    Yeah, but as far as I could tell, all the VST adaptor does is make it so a VSTi can be used as a DXi, so in essence it's the same thing, no? I ran the VST adaptor upon installing Sonar, and GPO was included in that.

    Anyway, I tried the various different ways of using and exporting GPO as a DXi, and still got the same problem, but I did get it to export alright when I changed the ASIO driver to the default driver (WDM, I assume) and raise the buffer from 64 to 256. It worked fine for a while, then I added some more instruments and then it didn't work again, so I changed all the settings around again, eventually coming back to the 256 and now it works again. So, I'm not sure if it'll keep working... At this point, that is the question.
    www.EricHermanMusic.com
    - Cool Tunes for Kids -

  8. #8

    Re: The honeymoon over?? (re:Sonar 3)

    Shazbot,
    Post your system specs, particularly memory, CPU, sound card.

    Did you try re-profiling your sound card in SONAR?

    I use SONAR 3.1.1 PE and am able to load it quite heavily without problems, but read on...

    When I first got GPO, I installed it on my older system (admittedly a loaded machine, 'cause it's my software dev machine). It is a Dell Intel 2.0 GHz w/ 512MB, SBLive!, MME drivers. I experienced dropouts similar to what your piece exhibits, even though the CPU meter in SONAR was not peaking. This was a memory issue which was resolved to some degree by bumping up the latency to 70 or more as Brian of the Golden Ratio suggested.

    On my new machine, an AMD 3200+ w/ 2GB, EMU 1820 w/ ASIO drivers at 5.8 ms, no dropouts related to memory but in some ensemble passages (approx 30-40 simultaneous voices/5 instances of GPO as VST) the CPU utilization spikes and causes dropouts.

    So...combination of memory, CPU, and latency.

    I know you're a SONAR forum member. Try posting there.

  9. #9
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    Re: The honeymoon over?? (re:Sonar 3)

    I would also recommend using the VST version as the DXi has a tempo change bug. This screws up note lengths. Are you notes cutting out or are the lengths being changed by this bug?

    I always bounce GPO tracks to an audio track inside Sonar first. You may need to do a couple passes if you have high polyphony instruments such as piano, harp or celeste. Then export the audio tracks.

    If you're beta testing the latest version with DFD, make sure you've upped the amount of reserved voices as it defaults to 64. Raise it up to something like 248.

  10. #10

    Re: The honeymoon over?? (re:Sonar 3)

    Quote Originally Posted by Haydn
    I would also recommend using the VST version as the DXi has a tempo change bug. This screws up note lengths. Are you notes cutting out or are the lengths being changed by this bug?
    Notes are cutting out. But please explain what the difference is of using GPO as a VST as opposed to a DXi in Sonar. The only thing I've found about using VSTi in Sonar says that it can convert VSTi to DXi to use. So how do I know if I'm using the VST or DXi version??

    I always bounce GPO tracks to an audio track inside Sonar first. You may need to do a couple passes if you have high polyphony instruments such as piano, harp or celeste. Then export the audio tracks.
    What do you mean by "a couple passes"?

    If you're beta testing the latest version with DFD, make sure you've upped the amount of reserved voices as it defaults to 64. Raise it up to something like 248.
    It was already set higher than that.

    Tried another piece today. 10 instruments, 15 seconds long. Every time I try to either export to WAV or bounce to a track it gets to 54% and then I get one of those "Don't Send" errors and Sonar shuts down. Arrrgh.

    Yes, my system is only 1.7 gHz (P4, WinXP Home, 768 RAM) and that probably has a lot to do with these issues, but I was still getting much better output with Cubasis, so this is frustrating.
    www.EricHermanMusic.com
    - Cool Tunes for Kids -

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