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Topic: crescendo in sonar ?

  1. #1

    crescendo in sonar ?


    the french newbie is back.
    How can I easily do a crescendo in sonar with GPO ?
    I know I have to use the MOD wheel controller.

    For the moment, I tried to go in the event list and I inserted a lot of controllers CC1 each second (for example), to make a crescendo manually, but that's not handy at all.

    Do you have a technic to create a crescendo automatically, from a measure to another. (either on a long note, or a musical melody).

    Thanks a million.


  2. #2

    Re: crescendo in sonar ?

    To increase volume you have to open the midi track in piano roll view. In the left bottom corner there will be an envelope selector (3 drop downs). Change the first one to "controller", the second one to "1" (one - just overtype the zero number shown) and the third dropdown to "All channels". Now use your mouse to draw a shape. The higher the shape, the higher the volume. This will create a swell in the volume.

    Addng a cc each second will create a very eratic jump in volume. When you use the mouse in the way described above you will end up with many (if not hundereds) of cc changes within each second to create a smooth increase in volume.

    You can do a similar thing in track view with envelopes, but never use envelopes in both track view and piano view on the same track.

    In general, to create a propper cresendo you can do it by 1) Increase volume as above 2) add more instruments and/or 3) change instrumentation (a brass section with timpani and cymbals at the hight of the crescendo will be more effective than a mellow solo flute).

  3. #3

    Re: crescendo in sonar ?

    thank you very much, I think I'll try it right now with the piano roll.
    sounds very handy.
    Hope I'll manage.

    This is a piece I wrote for a brass ensemble and percussion in Finale, and I saved it in Midi to work on it in sonar to have a good demo.
    you're right, the instrumentation plays a lot. When I want the brasses to play forte, I add the overlay sounds of my GPO.

    thank you again.


  4. #4

    Re: crescendo in sonar ?

    Just an extra note -- I use controller 7 not controller 1 for crescendo -- probably depends on the libraries. Controller 1 for me often changes the timbre, while 7 just changes the volume. But the piano roll view, bottom pane, is a good place to put in such things; for a sparse (few controller messages used) crescendo I use the event view, insert, and change time to just what is needed.

    You can edit, in event view, and then use copy-paste once you get the right motion. Also, real players change loudness constantly, subtly, on sustained notes.

  5. #5

    Re: crescendo in sonar ?

    Just thought I'll add something more. Have a look at this post from Nicole. It has a screenshot of the Sonar piano roll with controllers. A very good example.

    Not a crescendo in that case, but you'll get the idea.


  6. #6

    Re: crescendo in sonar ?

    Just a note: Unlike many libraries, GPO is specifically designed to use the mod wheel (cc1) for all expressive volume/timbre changes. cc7 is primarily used to set relative levels between instruments (assuming it is activated in the Options menu). Level setting can also be accomplished using the player's volume knob if cc7 is not activated.

    Even with other standard libraries cc7 should not be used for expressive volume changes. That is the job of cc11 in the MIDI spec. That way the dynamic, expressive volume changes within a track (using cc11) remain effective even when you change the overall volume of the track with cc7.

    But, as I said, GPO is different.


  7. #7

    Re: crescendo in sonar ?

    Thanks for that note! I use GOS, not GPO, but have always used CC#7 -- will try #11 today.

  8. #8

    Re: crescendo in sonar ?

    Another quandry on crescendo -- and change of timbre: in GOS, there are typically 4 samples per note for the patches I use most (p, mp, mf, f) -- this causes occasional unwanted inflexions when a line using midi key velocity changes crosses a threshold. For example, play a note at key velocity 95 , then one at 97 -- for some patches, some notes, the change is noticeable.

    Sometimes I use cc#7 to avoid this problem -- I play the FF patch , high key velocity, but low track volume level; or vice versa, keep the key velocity under 96 and increase the track level. Can controller 11 help here?

  9. #9

    Re: crescendo in sonar ?

    A four-way crossfade among the four samples the way to handle crescendos without jumps. The crossfades should be smooth, linear progressions fading in and out. Don't recall off hand which GOS gigs include such crossfades (EXP?), but look in the manual's listing of articulations and techniques. (BTW, such crossfades are easy to set, once you look at how they are done.)


  10. #10

    Re: crescendo in sonar ?

    ok, I tried with ModWheel in the piano roll, that's very easy.
    thanks very much.

    But I posted another thread because I wondered which values you use in general with GPO, I mean how much for p, mp, mf, f and ff for example.

    thanks for reply.

    Windows XP. P4.
    Full GPO and CoMB.
    Finale 2008 and Sonar 7 PE.

    Mostly writing music for concert Band.
    Publishing his own work.

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