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Topic: problem in sonar with GPO

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  1. #1

    problem in sonar with GPO

    Hi,

    I don't understand something about the console in SONAR.
    I have written a piece for brass ensemble and percussion, and I inserted 4 DXi (GPO).
    So, I have several midi tracks (with all the midi events), and many DXi tracks with no events at all.

    If I launch the console, I don't have any signal in the midi tracks (sounds normal to me), but I just have a signal in every second chanel of each DXi. I don't understand.
    I would like to be able to change the level for each DXi track.
    (Did I miss anything ???)

    If anyone can help a newbie, thanks very much !

    Alex

  2. #2

    Re: problem in sonar with GPO

    Hi Alex,
    I'll give this a shot. It's not clear from your post if you understand how to set up the DXi's voices to receive on separate midi channels and how to route the midi tracks to the GPO DXi instances. It's also not clear how much experience you have with SONAR. So I hope my post isn't too insultingly simple.

    Setting up the GPO DXi:
    If, for example, in DXi instance #1 you have a Trumpet in slot 1 and a French Horn in slot 2, make sure you assign each slot to receive on a separate midi channel in the player--1 and 2 in this case, for example. (unless you are creating ensembles--I'm trying to keep it simple here.)

    Setting up the sending midi track:
    The midi tracks drive the voices in the GPO instances. Make sure you assign the Trumpet midi track's OUTPUT to GPO DXi #1 and its CHANNEL to the midi channel that you've set up for the Trumpet inside the DXi #1--channel 1 in this example. Same for the French Horn midi track, except its channel should be 2.

    Monitoring the DXi's:
    When you inserted the GPO instances, an audio track was created for each one. The volume slider for DXi #1 will control the overall output of that DXi instance. Same for the other instances.

    There are several other things you can do to improve the amount of control you have over each voice, including routing the DXi voices to separate player outputs and setting up separate audio tracks to control them. Also, by using submixes in SONAR.

    C'est un grand sujet.
    Bill

  3. #3

    Re: problem in sonar with GPO

    Hi Bill, and thank you

    Setting up the GPO DXi:
    I haven't done anything in GPO about midi, I thought it was automatic.

    Setting up the sending midi track:
    That thing I knew, so for example, 1st slot of DXi1 = ch1 / 2nd slot of DXi1 = ch2 / 1st slot of DXi2 = ch1 (or ch9) ?

    Monitoring the DXi's:
    I understand what you mean. If I have trumpet and french horn in the same DXi, I can't set a different level for each of them. (is that what you mean ?).

    What do you mean by routing the DXi voices ?
    Do you mean that I should open a DXi for each instrument ?

    Thank you for the light you gave to me.
    And bravo for the french.

    Alex

    (I think I'll try to download some demos from garritan's site, sometimes you can download a sonar file. So I'll examine it).
    Windows XP. P4.
    Full GPO and CoMB.
    Finale 2008 and Sonar 7 PE.

    Mostly writing music for concert Band.
    Publishing his own work.
    http://www.alexandrecarlin.com/catalog

  4. #4
    Senior Member rwayland's Avatar
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    Re: problem in sonar with GPO

    Quote Originally Posted by Irish28
    Hi,

    I don't understand something about the console in SONAR.
    I have written a piece for brass ensemble and percussion, and I inserted 4 DXi (GPO).
    So, I have several midi tracks (with all the midi events), and many DXi tracks with no events at all.

    If I launch the console, I don't have any signal in the midi tracks (sounds normal to me), but I just have a signal in every second chanel of each DXi. I don't understand.
    I would like to be able to change the level for each DXi track.
    (Did I miss anything ???)

    If anyone can help a newbie, thanks very much !

    Alex
    Well, here is my solution. I find using GPO Studio as vst host a better method than DXi. I use Sonar 2.2. You didn't mention which version of Sonar your use, but I expect the basic method would be the same. So:

    Before opening Sonar, open GPO Studio, load your instruments as suits your needs. You can then set various parameters independently for each slot.

    Then you can go to Sonar. For OUT, select the appropriate GPO player, 1 - 8. The channel now refers to slot number of the GPO player that you have selected. So you can theoretically have 8 channels numbered 1 - one for each GPO player, and they will all be different.

    In this way, you won't need to insert any audio channels until you are ready to record. You can add effects from Sonar, or from GPO Studio.

    You might find the DXi suits your working habits. I did not. I can't say that one way is better, just that this works quite well for me. Most of my use of GPO has been pipe organ. I have just begun an orchestral work, and have some band pieces that I mean to convert to GPO some day, also one fantasy for orchestra to convert.

  5. #5

    Re: problem in sonar with GPO

    The big advantage of using a DXi or VSTi plugin version of GPO, instead of Studio, is that within the host sequencer you can have very intimate control of the audio output of each and every GPO instrument that is playing. If you assign each GPO instrument's audio output to a unique audio track, that is.

    Different reverb send level, for example, or add an EQ to trim off some unwanted frequency content, and so forth. You can develop a very sophisticated, highly controllable audio mix this way, while working with the instruments midi tracks, without the added bother of printing each track to audio separately.

    Trond

  6. #6

    Re: problem in sonar with GPO

    Hi Alex,

    Good question from rwayland. Which version of SONAR. I'm on 3.1.1 PE.

    Also agree with dnortana that VST/DXi approach gives you much more control inside SONAR.

    You should definitely look at some SONAR GPO demos. I'd also suggest that you set up a projet très simple, starting with 1 midi track and one GPO instance with one instrument and get that working. Then add a second instrument, etc., then a second GPO instance...I guess this is my software engineering mind at work, but I think it's good to have a test bed to experiment with.

    Here's a routing fundamental path. There are many other routing approaches that give you much more control over each instrument, effects, etc.

    Midi Track 1
    ------------
    Input: N/A
    Output: GPO #1
    Channel: 1

    Kontakt Player #1
    -----------------
    Slot 1: Instrument of your choice
    Midi In: 1
    Output: 1/2

    GPO #1 Audio Track
    -------------------
    Input: GPO #1 / Primary Out (same as 1/2)
    Output: Master (I created this bus--see next)

    Master Bus - created using "Insert Bus"
    -----------
    Output: Sound Card/Audio Device (EMU 1820 in my case)

    Let us know how you do.
    Bill

  7. #7

    Re: problem in sonar with GPO

    If I'm understanding you, Bill, having a seperate audio track for each GPO MIDI track would allow you to control the level of each instrument with a mixer fader in Sonar, whereas just recording as a MIDI track leaves the only possible volume changes with the Kontakt player or the controller modulation? In Cubasis, there are the MIDI and VST channel mixers, which make volume changes and mixing easier, and I was wondering how to accomplish the same essential thing in Sonar.
    www.EricHermanMusic.com
    - Cool Tunes for Kids -

  8. #8

    Re: problem in sonar with GPO

    Quote Originally Posted by billp
    Hi Alex,
    I'm on 3.1.1 PE.

    Also agree with dnortana that VST/DXi approach gives you much more control inside SONAR.
    And another question: with this setup, can you record your midi into audio at computer time, faster than real time? Someone on the Cakewalk forums implied yes, which sounded VERY attractive since I have to wait long minutes everytime something needs to be recorded.

  9. #9

    Re: problem in sonar with GPO

    Gugliel,

    Yes, you can bounce a track much faster than real time from midi with GPO to an audio track. In fact, you can render the whole song to audio with dozens of GPO tracks in much less than real time.

    -- Martin
    http://www.starbirthmusic.com

  10. #10

    Re: problem in sonar with GPO

    Alex,

    The easiest way to set up Sonar with GPO is to open the synth rack and use it to create your instances of GPO. Click the View menu, and select synth rack. Click the Add button, and select GPO VST (it works better than the dxi in Sonar). It will ask what tracks you want to create. Check the box for first midi track and audio track, and it will automatically create the tracks with the correct routing. Then just record your midi part and you're good to go.

    -- Martin
    http://www.starbirthmusic.com

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