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Topic: Impulses/Reverb

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  1. #1
    Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Location
    Kauai, Hawaii, USA
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    685

    Smile Impulses/Reverb

    Impulse Experiments

    I have been turned on to “Impulses” by Gary G. and others here (and for that, I thank everyone). After downloading the SIR processor ( free here ) I began some limited experimentation and a couple of my recent pieces have used them (as noted when used).

    A few days ago, I decided to revisit one of my earlier symphonic experiments -- “Tutti – Symphonic Trance 2004-3” – and see how it might come out with an Impulse in place of traditional reverb. I selected this particular piece because the original objective of it was to illustrate as many slightly different “tutti crashes” as I could, while (hopefully) wrapping it in some additional contrasting elements. As such, I think it challenges the “hall” in which it is performed. ). The piece uses only GOS/Lite and GPO instruments.

    (Brief caveat needed here: There was one high string line that somehow got a “hanging” note that would not stop sounding, so I re-recorded the line. Other than that, the piece is exactly as previously released. For that reason, the original two MP3 and WMA versions are on the page as well for comparison purposes.)

    I have put together a comparison page for your examination and/or comment here: Tutti.

    As the page details, there are three versions of the piece there: [1] the original (as released to AcidPlanet, Ampcast and Broadjam in late April), [2] the revised “Reverb” version (with the slightly changed string group), and [3] the SIR/”Concert Hall 2” impulse version. All three are available for download (or listen) in either HiFi 160 MP3 or dial-up-friendly LoFi 56K WMA. For the last two versions, the sources were totally identical and the only thing different was the Impulse or Reverb. (The precise settings for those are delineated on the page for those who care to scrutinize those.)

    I am interested here in how this illustrious community perceives the differences in the Impulse or Reverb versions and which one you feel is “better”. You’re free to comment on the piece as well, but for this experiment it IS what it is, which is the “apple” that remains constant for 2 out of the 3 (times 2) examples. In all likelihood, you might not hear much of a difference in the WMA version (because of the inherent limitations in that bandwidth).

    I hope this example illustrates impulses for you if you are contemplating using them. I hope to find time to do a more “scientific” test with various solo instruments in various sonic environments in the near future (mainly for my own edification, but it’s always fun to share). I would be interested in suggestions for particular instruments and ensenbles for an "experimental" piece to produce (say) 3 or 4 comparative versions, so PM or email me if you have ideas.


    Cheers! KevinKauai

    P.S. I wanted to also post a PDF Score for the piece (for those who like to read along) but I'm having troubles with "PDFPrint" and it not wanting to use "virtual paper" taller than 11 inches. So I've done a work-around by bringing the MIDI into Allegro and somehow printed it to a PDF there -- relatively successfully. Has anyone trailblazed that and found a way to get a taller score? If so, kindly PM or email me -- kft@who.net -- and I will add that feature to the page.
    Last edited by KevinKauai; 08-10-2004 at 06:44 PM. Reason: fix PDF info

  2. #2

    Re: Impulses/Reverb

    Kevin,

    The impulse version sounds more realistic to me, but I prefer the sound of the cubase version.

    -- Martin
    http://www.starbirthmusic.com

  3. #3

    Re: Impulses/Reverb

    Quote Originally Posted by mschiff
    Kevin,

    The impulse version sounds more realistic to me, but I prefer the sound of the cubase version.

    -- Martin
    I would have to agree Kevin. I have been using impulse 'verbs much more now but find that they are best applied in the tracking stage to give the individual instruments and sections some 'life' and then an overall reverb such as the Waves Rverb or the good one built into OZONE is used in the mastering stage. For orchestral music mastering I go against logic and use the 'verb after all other processing is done. This sort of "takes the roof off" of the mix and gives one a bit more of an impression of an actual classical recording.

    I have also used many more reverbs than the ones mentioned, as well. The excellent impulses supplied by Gary can really help put that realism into your mixes.

    Btw, if you could afford it, the Waves IR 'verb is the best sounding impulse reverb I've heard yet. The 'decorelation' adjustment is essential IMO for getting a broad lively soundstage.

  4. #4
    Member
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    Nov 2003
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    Kauai, Hawaii, USA
    Posts
    685

    Talking A listening challenge!

    Thanks for your comments, Martin and nexus . In the spirit of the lamentations of Craig Reeves about “love”, this thread seems to be getting precious little feedback. Let’s liven things up a bit.

    Here are four links (two each for 160K MP3 and 56K WMA, respectively) of the same piece (“Conversation and Stroll – Orchestral Etude 2004-7”) which I am about to publish is all the usual places. This piece has a fairly wide range of dynamics, which, I think, should make the IR or Reverb more easy to discern, but let's have fun with a "blind test".

    Depending on your bandwidth, of course, listen to the two versions of the piece and then tell me which is “impulse” and which is “reverb”.

    Version A MP3 (5.159 meg)
    Version B MP3 (5.159 meg)
    Version C WMA (1.059 meg)
    Version D WMA (1.059 meg)

    Depending on which version (MP3 or WMA) you listen to, respond to this thread telling me which (A/B) is Reverb or IR (or C/D).

    I’ll let this thread simmer a while and then tabulate the results. (I’ve got to hide my “Captain Magic Secret Decoder Ring” someplace safe so I can decipher the results!) The score for the piece is here: Conversation and Stroll score

    Enjoy! KevinKauai

    Caveat: The results will be blurred by the limitations inherent in MP3 and WMA -- in fact, I'm not sure that I can hear any real differences in the WMA versions at all.

  5. #5

    Re: A listening challenge!

    Sorry to jump into this conversation so late, but can someone explain the difference between the Ambience plug-in that comes with GPO and SIR? I'm just a beginner, but I think Ambience sounds great. In the examples above using "Reverb" is the reverb "Ambience?"

    For what its worth I prefer the "A" mp3 to the "B" mp3.

  6. #6

    Re: Impulses/Reverb

    Way too much reverb in the A demo for me. I much prefer the B.

    By the way, nice piece! The rhythmic part about half way through was a surprise - a bit unsettling at first, but now I'm humming it as I work ...

  7. #7
    Your posts got too complicated, but I prefer the B version mp3; the A's reverb is too obvious. As to the music, very nice, especially when the english horn(?) enters. The last section, with its resolute thumping, reminded me of the days when I had to carry my children home from the playground because they were too tired out to walk themselves! Not fully consistent with the other music, maybe.
    Last edited by gugliel; 08-13-2004 at 09:40 AM. Reason: Got my A and B backwards!

  8. #8

    Re: Impulses/Reverb

    I think B is the IR, and in this case I like it better. Don't make the mistake of thinking that because I preferred one over the other in the original post, that it is always my preference. I use a different reverb combination on almost every piece that I do. I may try 5 or 6 of them before finding the right combination.

    -- Martin
    http://www.starbirthmusic.com

  9. #9

    Re: Impulses/Reverb

    I Think B is better.
    Sincerely,
    Falcon1


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  10. #10

    Re: Impulses/Reverb

    D - I think D - I think D - I have to type this much cause it told me my answer of "D" was too short...
    Alan Lastufka | www.BelaDMedia.com
    Producer/Artistic Design | Content Producer

    20 Things

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