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Topic: Individual drum volumes...what a pain!

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  1. #1

    Individual drum volumes...what a pain!

    Howdy Folks -

    I was wondering if there was a better way to do drum editing than the way I currently do it (please, please!)

    I am using Gigasampler version 1.64 on a Win98se PC. I run my drum tracks through Giga, triggered from my sequencer, plays back, no problemo.

    The problem arises when I need to raise or lower the volume on a particular drum(individual drum sound), Giga requires me to go into the editor (and the sounds stop...is this the default behavior?), edit the volume of the note # corresponding to the sample in question. Then I Save, Quit the Instrument Editor and the instrument reloads...although I still hear no sound. I have to quit Giga, and reload the instrument again. Presto! I changed the volume in eleventy-seven E-Z steps. ;-)

    It\'s a hell of a way to mix. Of course I do run individual outs from my PC, but with only 8 audio outs, I quickly run out. And I would like to be able to use stereo samples for all the drums, but that leads to even less flexibility w/regards to individual drum-sound mixing. A stereo field of all cymbals (for similar EQ curves in my hardware mixer) can consist of 8 or more different crashes, rides, etc. Yowza!

    Anyone know of a better way to do this? I checked out GigaStudio, but it appears that you can only raise/lower volumes in the Giga mixer on the entire instrument, not the individual notes (makes sense for everything but drums, I \'spose).

    I tried Battery, which is GREAT for doing this kind of editing, but it loses sync all the time, and I\'ve never had a problem with Giga (both are on the same machine, of course).

    Thanks in advance for any info or pointers!!

    -David

  2. #2

    Re: Individual drum volumes...what a pain!

    Uhm... tried velocity???! (in your sequencer).

  3. #3

    Re: Individual drum volumes...what a pain!

    You should be able to assign MIDI CC controllers to attenuation for different regions.

    So you can have Mod wheel control volume for Snare, Foot pedal for Kick, another for cymbals, another for hats....

    Not sure if Gigasampler can do this, but gigastudio\'s editor should be able to.

    It just takes a little programming, haven\'t tried it myself, but your queestion made me think of how I\'d do it,...and thats prolly how

    ------------------
    Really...I am an Idiot

  4. #4

    Re: Individual drum volumes...what a pain!

    King Idiot\'s approach would be the best way, but if you went to Gigastudio and didn\'t want to do the editing, you could just assign the same drum gig to several channels, and use each channel for a single drum (after all, you\'ve got 64 channels). That way you get a dedicated volume slider, expression control etc., for each drum with its own channel,

  5. #5

    Re: Individual drum volumes...what a pain!

    King and Chad,

    I\'ve got to disagree. Your method involves a LOT of tweaking, to hocket out the drum tracks to separate channels, even when the sequencer can do this easily, is a pain, AND uses a bunch of your available tracks. If you plan to keep this kit as your permanent set, and plan to record it independently, then MAYBE it makes sense (to me) but I think Simon has the simple solution-di a global MIDI edit in the sequence of the particular notes.

    In Digital Performer, I can separate each track by pitch so each drum is a separate track; I assume (there\'s that word again...) that other sequencers have similar capabilities. Once this has been done (a 15-second process) just select the instrument and scale the volume appropriately.

    I realize that you guuys work in a multi-tweak environment, due to the complex nature of the highest quality GS samples, but this will save time, resources and tempers.

    Dasher

  6. #6

    Re: Individual drum volumes...what a pain!

    Thanks for all the great ideas! The individual track in Digital Performer suits me to a \"T\", but all were workable. Thanks again!

    Now if I could just find a decent drum sample library (I think I own them all!!)

    -David

  7. #7

    Re: Individual drum volumes...what a pain!

    There\'s one problem with Simon\'s approach:

    You\'re changing the volume by changing velocity, and that may not be the right thing to do for all drum sounds - especiialy the newer drums you but for Gigastudio.

    Once you get into multi velocity layers, playing with velocity response means you\'re not just changing volume, but changing which actual samples you\'re hearing.

    Say you have a great snare track, but it\'s a tad loud. You drop the velocity by 20 and now it\'s softer, but it sounds different - that \'crack\' you liked so much is replaced by a \'thwap\' which isn\'t quite right. That\'s because dropping 20 velocity points was enough to take you to a softer snare performance. It\'s the same drum, n=but played differently.

    Unless you\'re using drum sounds which don\'t incorporate velocity splits, I\'d be very wary of what you\'re doing when you play with velocity offsets.

    That said, until I got Giga, velocity was the way I altered my volume on most instruments, unless they used velocity for envelope shape/filter changes.

    Now that I\'m using Giga, I\'ve found it very useful to be clear on when I need to apply changes to velocity, expression or main volume. They all have their place.

    I suppose it\'s the price you pay for more complex instruments and more control.

  8. #8

    Re: Individual drum volumes...what a pain!

    yup Chadwick\'s right.

    Velocity is different than volume for drums especially.

    you need to approach it more like a recording session where you have different tracks for the different drums. This means differrent MIDI channels and if you REALLy want to get out there different output channels. HAving different output channels allows for more reverb control and compression...etc.

    However the first tweak I spoke about is probably the best if you\'re not doing any post processing and want to save MIDI channels I wonder why no one has set up a standard like this for drums?



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    Really...I am an Idiot

  9. #9

    Re: Individual drum volumes...what a pain!

    Hi !

    If you work with cakewalk you could use one of those Midi plug-ins for Cakewalk from NTONYX. It is called \"Drum Adjuster\" (www.ntonyx.com). This seems to me a great idea.

    greetings Hugbald (Berlin)

  10. #10

    Re: Individual drum volumes...what a pain!

    Actually, the \'best of both worlds-i.e. biggest PITA- approach\' would probably be (IMHO):

    1: separate the individual instruments onto individual tracks. For now, keep them all on the same MIDI channel.

    2: apply the scaling algorithm to a track. Listen. If this causes a problem in the sample selection, UNDO it and apply the volume (CC7) message. Change the MIDI channel to an unused, unique channel.

    3: Repeat for all instruments that need volume adjustments. When you\'re done, drums with the same CC7 message can be combined to one MIDI channel to save processor cycles and MIDI channels.

    A LOT of work, but does the job.

    The other option: Adjust the Giga file in the editor (back to post 1...

    Dasher

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