Loud Brass. Minus clipping, Please.

**DZComposer** · 08-13-2004, 05:25 PM

Sorry if this sounds newbie-ish, but I am still learning how to use GPO effectively.

In some of my music, I like to bring the brass out a lot. Particularly the trombones and horns. This is often in a fortissimo section. But, I am running into clipping in the samples. I usually don't set my volumes louder than 64. I want to bring the brass above the other sounds, but not at the expense of losing the full orchestra fortissimo. I do this by bringing the mod wheel full (127) for the brass I want out. And I generally keep the others around 100. Sometimes the instrument clips on its own, and sometime is clips if like 2 other instruments are playing.

My soundcard is a Creative Audigy 2.

Now, I also don't use the overlays. I don't like the way they sound at all. I generally build sections of 2 to 4 instruments.

Is there another way I can get this effect without clipping? I would rather not volume down, but If I have to, is there a way to make up for it on post-production?

**Error** · 08-13-2004, 09:27 PM

I've never gotten any clipping with GPO without applying effects to the recorded track (for example, I had a section of all the french horns and trombones, with overlays, at nearly full mod wheel and velocity without clipping). That said, maybe I just work with low overall volumes or smaller full orchestras than you.

The first thing I would do is, assuming you're using Studio, move the volume of your brass higher. In my opinion, the default volume is very low, so it doesn't get really loud even if you put the mod wheel all the way up.

Also, are you making sure to raise the velocity for the notes you want to bring out? Velocity makes a huge difference in volume for some instruments, as well as getting the tone quality of a loud brass blast. You could also try putting a little bit of overlay at a low volume to get a bit more power without emphasizing that sound.

I'm pretty newbie-ish too, though, so someone else may have a better idea.

**Ron Klaren** · 08-14-2004, 02:40 AM

I don't know what software you're using, but why not just lower the Mastervolume?
You can allways compensate for it on the final mix, by normalising it.
(Or maybe.. just a teenyweeny compression... if I'm allowed to say that after last nights chat

)

Ron

**DZComposer** · 08-14-2004, 10:32 AM

I use GPO Studio.

How would I normalize or compress? I have almost zero knowledge of WAV editing software.

**Skysaw** · 08-14-2004, 12:16 PM

Originally Posted by Ron Klaren

I don't know what software you're using, but why not just lower the Mastervolume?

The clipping may actually be occurring within the instance of GPO itself. In this case, it's much better to raise the master volume, and lower the volume in each individual instrument to bring it back where it was.

**DZComposer** · 08-14-2004, 02:12 PM

Where is the Master Volume in GPO Studio?

**Ron Klaren** · 08-14-2004, 03:07 PM

Originally Posted by Skysaw

The clipping may actually be occurring within the instance of GPO itself. In this case, it's much better to raise the master volume, and lower the volume in each individual instrument to bring it back where it was.

I used a full blown horn section (3xHorns 1&2 and 2 Overlays) on 1 midichannel and couldn't get the audio to clip inside the GPO vst itself.
I'm using GPO inside Cubase as a VSTi, perhaps that's the difference.

DZ: As I use GPO only in Cubase, I woudn't know how to adjust the mastervolume in your situation, sorry.

**DZComposer** · 08-16-2004, 11:15 AM

I can get clipping in the VST as well.

For instance, here is a 4 horn section in the stand-alone:

http://www.classicalhorn.com/clipping.mp3

Volume is set to MIDI 64.

Mod wheel starts at my estimate of MIDI 64. Then it goes to somewhre around 100. Then full.

It is a C major scale. Played marcato up and legato down, followed by a building C major chord.

No clipping first one.

second one starts clipping when the 5th of the chord enters.

Thrid one clips all over the place. Really bad in the chord.

**Haydn** · 08-16-2004, 11:08 PM

Be careful of controlling volume through MIDI. An instrument set at -6.0 db is about 60 with CC7 (Volume). If you are set at 65 you will get clipping. Horns and woodwinds are set even lower. Horns may only be at about 55 and woodwinds under 50.

I recommend making fine adjustments in the player to the volume and then control all expression with CC1 (modulation).

Strings are the loudest and probably shouldn't be set higher than -6.0 db in the player (60 - CC7 volume). Other instruments except the percussion and keyboards shouldn't be set higher than 60 either.

This should eliminate clipping.

**DZComposer** · 08-17-2004, 12:44 PM

*sigh* I guess I must turn the volumes down.

I guess I'll have to find out how to do these "Normalizing" and "Compressing" things... Any suggestions?

In a perfect world, clipping wouldn't even exsist...