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Topic: Fascism in Action

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  1. #1

    Fascism in Action

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    Ticket ripped because of sticker
    Teacher, 55, wanted to see a president

    BY IAN C. STOREY

    Record-Eagle staff writer

    TRAVERSE CITY - Kathryn Mead wanted to see her first sitting president when George W. Bush visited the city.

    Instead, Bush campaign staffers tore up the 55-year-old social studies teacher's ticket and refused her admission because she sported a small sticker on her blouse that touted the Democratic ticket of John Kerry and John Edwards.

    "I had my ticket and photo identification, but they would not let me in because of this sticker," said Mead, a teacher at Traverse City West Senior High, who said she has seen Queen Elizabeth and Pope John Paul in person.

    "I have never found this kind of screening anywhere in my travels around the world. I can't imagine being denied access to hearing the president of the United States speak."

    Several people outside the campaign event tried to console Mead, who was visibly upset.

    "It really is comedic," said a man holding a Kerry/Edwards sign. "What absolute nonsense."

    Kate Stephan, chair of the Grand Traverse Republican Party, could not be reached for comment after the rally.

    But Ralph Soffredine, a Traverse City commissioner, school board member and former police chief who worked security at the front gate, said it is part of the Bush campaign policy.

    For the rest: http://www.record-eagle.com/2004/aug/17mead.htm

  2. #2

    Re: Fascism in Action

    In fairness, there's no evidence here to suggest that Bush & Co. ordered this kind of treatment. It very likely was just a couple of hothead Secret Service guys taking matters into their own hands. Still shameful, but let's not jump to conclusions here.

  3. #3
    Senior Member
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    Re: Fascism in Action

    I've both heard on the radio and read in newspapers - 3 or 4 times, at least, - of this sort of thing happening to people attempting to attend a Bush ralley.

  4. #4

    Re: Fascism in Action

    A shame? Yes. Fascism? No. This is extremely far from qualifying for the label of "fascism".

  5. #5

    Re: Fascism in Action

    Quote Originally Posted by Brady Wright
    A shame? Yes. Fascism? No. This is extremely far from qualifying for the label of "fascism".
    I agree. It's Bush-ism. It's With-us-or-against-us-ism.

    In New Mexico they were actually requiring people to sign a pledge before they could hear Bush speak. That's certainly no way to attrack swing voters.

    It's Divider-ism.

    -JF

  6. #6

    Re: Fascism in Action

    Quote Originally Posted by JonFairhurst
    It's With-us-or-against-us-ism.

    It's Divider-ism.
    I think what happened at this Bush rally is, like Brady said, a shame (not to mention absurd), though definitely not fascism.

    With regard to "With-us-or-against-us-ism," I think a random sampling of posts on this forum (as just one example) shows that the Left holds pretty much that same view when dealing with those who disagree with them. It's the Left that tends to be more monolithic and less nuanced when dealing with any given issue.

    Flame away.

  7. #7
    hv
    Guest

    Re: Fascism in Action


  8. #8

    Re: Fascism in Action

    Quote Originally Posted by hv
    Free speech is well and good. But for speech to truly be free, there's also a certain amount of order that must exist. If people can be shouted down, or if speaking events can be hijacked by zealots, then clearly there's a conflict of rights to speak. In such circumstances, the rule of private property holds sway. I don't know the details about this case, but I'd imagine that Heinz was speaking at a venue which was not entirely public in nature. As such, the owners/operators have a right to admit or not admit certain people in the interests of preserving sufficient order to conduct their planned event.

    There's a difference between being able to say what you want in the abstract without being punished for it versus saying whatever you want wherever you want in whatever manner you want and expect to not have to yield to anyone else's rights.

    Besides, I don't trust Democracy Now to tell the whole story. I wouldn't be surprised if this person was being somewhat disruptive in addition to having the sign. Heck, Democracy Now paints cop killers like Abu Jamal as saintly martyrs while never telling the whole story. In fact, when they covered the Abu Jamal story, I had to look the story up on the 'net to actually get an idea of what happened because Democracy Now never gave any specifics at all. They just repeated over and over again a mantra something like "the establishment is making an example of him because he's an articulate black man". Yeah, maybe it's that, or maybe it's the fact that he shot a cop in cold blood?

  9. #9

    Re: Fascism in Action

    Brady,

    You make a good point. When somebody is on the stage with a mic, heckling pushes the limits of free speech. Of course, if the crowd turns against the speaker and boos, that's a valid reaction. It's when the heckler tries to silence the speaker on stage that it clearly crosses the line.

    When it comes to banners, I don't have the right to put up a banner in the local mall. Those are their walls, not mine. When it comes to wearing a controversial T-shirt in a mall, these are my clothes and my body, not the property of the mall owner. As long as the content isn't obscene, it's my business, not theirs.

    I'd liked to have seen the incident. It's hard to know where the line exists between valid dissent and being disruptive without knowing the whole story.

    -JF

  10. #10

    Re: Fascism in Action

    Quote Originally Posted by glennm01
    In fairness, there's no evidence here to suggest that Bush & Co. ordered this kind of treatment. It very likely was just a couple of hothead Secret Service guys taking matters into their own hands. Still shameful, but let's not jump to conclusions here.
    This kind of stuff has been happening at all the Bush rallies. People told to sign pledges to Bush or they won't be allowed inside. People wearing anti-Bush t-shirts being arrested. Cheney's handlers demanding to know the RACE of a photographer before they'll allow her to snap pictures of Dickie. The stories are out there and they're growing in number.

    And if that isn't a form of fascist behavior, Brady, you don't know what fascism is.

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