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Topic: Getting lush violins to sound lush

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  1. #1

    Getting lush violins to sound lush

    Okay, maybe I am a dope, but I can't seem to get the lush violin patches to sound lush. They seem to have heavy tremolo in legato passages. (Yup, I have the pedal controller set correctly.) Any suggestions? I listened to that one demo by Danielle Davis called "Memories of Father" and the violins are very sweeping, not tremolo heavy. What am I doing wrong? Warning, I am a drummer by trade, so speak slowly and use small words.


    Shrimp and jelly....

  2. #2
    Senior Member Styxx's Avatar
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    Thumbs up Re: Getting lush violins to sound lush

    Quote Originally Posted by Bubbagump
    Warning, I am a drummer by trade, so speak slowly and use small words.
    Hi Bubbagump!
    Nice to see there are fellow drummer / percussionist on board. No question here is a dumb one and you are certainly not a dope for asking. So sit tight the experts will be with you in a moment!
    Styxx

  3. #3

    Re: Getting lush violins to sound lush

    Quote Originally Posted by Bubbagump
    Okay, maybe I am a dope, but I can't seem to get the lush violin patches to sound lush. They seem to have heavy tremolo in legato passages. (Yup, I have the pedal controller set correctly.) Any suggestions? I listened to that one demo by Danielle Davis called "Memories of Father" and the violins are very sweeping, not tremolo heavy. What am I doing wrong? Warning, I am a drummer by trade, so speak slowly and use small words.


    Shrimp and jelly....
    Hello. Im not sure what you mean by tremolo. Alot of people are skeptical about the lush violin patches, but its just a matter of opinion and I personally like them.

    Are you refering to this as in vibrato? They are two different things. Load your trem violins and youll see what I mean, its like a rapid bowing technique. Now if your refereing to it as vibrato thats different. But, im not exactly sure as to what your refering to and can be more helpfull if you can be more specific as to what you want
    Nicole Davis

  4. #4

    Re: Getting lush violins to sound lush

    I think I know what he means. Actually, I was just thinking the same thing last night, that the Vln Lush instruments had a ringing/vibrato quality that was almost reminiscent of tremolo. But of course comparing them to the actual tremolo violins there's quite a difference. It's more of a perception thing based on the context of how you're hearing it, perhaps.

    But in any case... not that I'm an expert on this by any means, but I've found that using several of the violin patches, including the Lush ones, can give a convincing string section sound. And to me, the Lush patches work better and are more effective when used in that sense, as opposed to on their own. The problem for me is having the available tracks and RAM to have several violins playing the same thing. And the volume level and reverb selection can make a big difference, too. If just using a single violin instrument, and I want a "lush" kind of sound, I actually prefer to use the Sus+Short. Those are really nice and useful for a lot of things.

    I just listened to that Danielle Davis demo (ah, alliteration!), and those violins all sound like Short Bows. So if that's the kind of thing you're trying to do, use the Short Bows for that. And it sounds like she combined a few tracks of Short Bows, or at least the Vlns 1 & 2, to fill out the sound. Wonderful demo! I'd never heard that one before.

    Or whoops, was I hearing the right one? It says Danielle Davis, but the MP3 is called "swashbuckler" and wouldn't be considered "romantic" to me. Ah yeah, turns out on the demo page when you want to "sort by" composer or title, it rearranges everything wrong. Better check that out when you can, Gary. So it turns out the props go to Christian Von Hage for that "Swashbuckler" piece.

    Okay, now I'm hearing the right Danielle Davis piece! This is very nice, too. Yes, these are definitely layered patches, I'm guessing a combination between the Lush and Sus+Short, and the volume and dynamics are very well done. That's certainly a very big part of it. Wow, this is really a beautiful piece.
    www.EricHermanMusic.com
    - Cool Tunes for Kids -

  5. #5

    Re: Getting lush violins to sound lush

    Quote Originally Posted by Shazbot
    I think I know what he means. Actually, I was just thinking the same thing last night, that the Vln Lush instruments had a ringing/vibrato quality that was almost reminiscent of tremolo. But of course comparing them to the actual tremolo violins there's quite a difference. It's more of a perception thing based on the context of how you're hearing it, perhaps.

    But in any case... not that I'm an expert on this by any means, but I've found that using several of the violin patches, including the Lush ones, can give a convincing string section sound. And to me, the Lush patches work better and are more effective when used in that sense, as opposed to on their own. The problem for me is having the available tracks and RAM to have several violins playing the same thing. And the volume level and reverb selection can make a big difference, too. If just using a single violin instrument, and I want a "lush" kind of sound, I actually prefer to use the Sus+Short. Those are really nice and useful for a lot of things.

    I just listened to that Danielle Davis demo (ah, alliteration!), and those violins all sound like Short Bows. So if that's the kind of thing you're trying to do, use the Short Bows for that. And it sounds like she combined a few tracks of Short Bows, or at least the Vlns 1 & 2, to fill out the sound. Wonderful demo! I'd never heard that one before.

    Or whoops, was I hearing the right one? It says Danielle Davis, but the MP3 is called "swashbuckler" and wouldn't be considered "romantic" to me. Ah yeah, turns out on the demo page when you want to "sort by" composer or title, it rearranges everything wrong. Better check that out when you can, Gary. So it turns out the props go to Christian Von Hage for that "Swashbuckler" piece.

    Okay, now I'm hearing the right Danielle Davis piece! This is very nice, too. Yes, these are definitely layered patches, I'm guessing a combination between the Lush and Sus+Short, and the volume and dynamics are very well done. That's certainly a very big part of it. Wow, this is really a beautiful piece.
    I was replying because that is actually my first name(Danielle) but I didnt want to attract attention to myself . Its all Lush patches, I think what the problem is now that you mention it, when used for solo lines its more noticable(the vibrato). However the doubling of the melodic lines in either octaves or unisons with other sections(violas, cellos, 2nd violins or other instrument groups) in most areas change often throughout and makes a difference in the overall sound. And , to be honest, I never used the legato function . I didnt layer any other solo string instruments or sust and short . However the one thing that is probably more noticable when just using lets say 1st violins alone is the vibrato. I think in a musical context, the sound with these patches is gonna be determined by how you choose to double either it be woodwinds other string sections(cells, violas, 2nd violiins) ect in addition to timing(everything lining up perfectly).
    Nicole Davis

  6. #6

    Re: Getting lush violins to sound lush

    Bubba:

    I checked the Lush Violins 1 and 2:

    1. There is quite a bit a phasing among the instruments, natural I think. You can see this on the meters as variations in the volume.

    2. More important, though, at least to my ear, there is a slight sourness to V1 that gives it an unpleasant beatiness (you like my technical terms so far?) which may be sounding like vibrato to you. It's quite evident on the initial attack and then tends to blend in somewhat as the note is sustained. It's almost as though one of the V's was out of tune, because this effect is noticeable on several of the samples in V1.

    3. This effect is not present in V2, which has a smoother sound and a slightly harder edge.
    Bill

  7. #7

    Re: Getting lush violins to sound lush

    Okay, I am not nuts. Right, I should have said vibrato. (All the players wiggling their fingers at the same time, not tremolo with the bows.) I am so articulate.... But what you descibed is what I am hearing. They just are not as smooth as I would like and I suppose I am taking the patch names a bit too literally. I find the Lush VlnI to be quite thin, but this might be the ticket for a dense arrangement where you need them to poke through. But what I am doing is a pop arrangement like a David Foster or Andrea Bocelli type thing. So I think I need to throw out the idea that I have to use the VlnI Lush patch for the VlnI parts. To much thinking in the box..... Thanks for your input all so far.

    EDIT: I have to say, this forum is awesome. The folksthat made the demo actually hang here and can tell you how they did it. I'm jazzed.


    Shrimp milkshake....

  8. #8
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    Re: Getting lush violins to sound lush

    Bubbagump,

    What you are hearing is the vibrato. The vibrato is intentionally over the top and this patch is to be used for certain applications. There are solo strings mixed in for a wide vibrato. You're right in that the lush strings can be a ticket for a dense arrangement.

    For a David Foster or Andrea Bocelli type thing, here is another tip. As Nicole did, layer solo strings in with the sections. Use the Sustain and Shorts for this as the lush have solos already layered in. Make it so they will blend with the section strings so some will weave in and out. You may hear one solo predominate then recede into the mix while another becomes barely noticeable. With real string performances you may hear the individual instruments weave in and out. Not only will this fatten the sound but will further tie the legato passages together. Layering solo strings is a trick many of the pros use. Give it a try and see if this gives you the sound you are after.

    Gary Garritan

  9. #9

    Re: Getting lush violins to sound lush

    Thanks, I am learning just how truely ignorant I am of all this stuff. I have messed with MIDI for years, but the best I had before were full string patches like you get in a GM bank. This whole separate section thing is a bit daunting to me. I don't know what I should put with what yet to get the sound I want . I have been to plenty of live performances in town but I don't know about the actual scoring. But this is all great stuff for me to pay attention to the next time I am at the symphony.... Who is doubling who etc.

    EDIT: Did I mention this forum rocks?


    Shrimp pudding....

  10. #10

    Re: Getting lush violins to sound lush

    Quote Originally Posted by Garritan
    As Nicole did, layer solo strings in with the sections.
    Actually, I thought she said she didn't layer in any solo strings, that it was all lushes, but combined in different octaves or in unison with section cellos, violas, etc. In any case, whatever you did sounds exquisite, Nicole!

    Shrimp cereal...
    www.EricHermanMusic.com
    - Cool Tunes for Kids -

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