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Topic: Notation Problems: Finale/Sibelius Solutions?

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  1. #1

    Notation Problems: Finale/Sibelius Solutions?

    I've asked a question similar to this before in relation to Overture SE so you can disregared if you've tried to help me with that.

    To wit: If Overture doesn't fit my needs (and at the moment it doesn't seem to), I'll be looking to purchase either Finale 2005 or Sibelius 3. I'm not a musician, per se, but rather a musical artist with little or no technical/scholastic training. One question: will either program allow me to input/playback music without regard to time signature? That is, I don't want to be forced to count beats per measure...I just want to be able to put musical notes into an arbitrarily sized measure (that is, as big/small as I want) and for the software to play it back as written at the right tempo. Now I know it's possible...SmartScore will do it. (SmartScore is a notation/sequencer/scanner program that some Finale users may be familiar with. I'd rather not use this because I would prefer to learn a program with a larger consumer base.)

    Is this possible for Finale/Sibelius?

    Thanks!

  2. #2
    Senior Member
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    Re: Notation Problems: Finale/Sibelius Solutions?

    As far as I know in Finale you do need a time signature. You can hide it. You can hide barlines to make it appear that a series of measures are actually a single measure. But you do need to define a time signature. The largest time signature that I just entered was 100/1. That's one hundred whole notes per measure.

    But you can actually make a composite time signature of:
    100/1 + 100/1 + 100/1 + 100/1 + 100/1

    That would give you 500 whole notes in a single measure. You could tell finale not to display a time signature and this might be what you're looking for.

    Hope that's not too confusing.
    Jeff

  3. #3

    Talking Re: Notation Problems: Finale/Sibelius Solutions?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff Turner
    ...you can actually make a composite time signature of:
    100/1 + 100/1 + 100/1 + 100/1 + 100/1

    That would give you 500 whole notes in a single measure. You could tell finale not to display a time signature and this might be what you're looking for.

    Hope that's not too confusing.
    Jeff
    Assuming its accurate, it's not only clear as a bell, but nearly as welcome. But let me make sure I understand: From what you're saying, I can create a template in Finale that would let me write music that adds up to 500 whole notes in any given measure. And then my next measure can contain up to 500 whole notes...ad infinitum?

    Just to add a bit of a monkey wrench, when I tried (and failed) to do this in Overture SE, (setting the initial time signature to 99/1) according Geniesoft I can't do this is because Quote: There is a mathematical limitation. Using a whole note you can only get 17 beats. (per measure)."

    Just making sure this limitation doesn't exist in Finale.

    Thanks for your help!

  4. #4

    Re: Notation Problems: Finale/Sibelius Solutions?

    imagegod,
    Sibelius 3 has a feature called Free Rhythm that allows you to (quoting from the manual) "input the music in one long bar or in several shorter bars with invisible barlines." ..."Music in free rhythm means that there ar eno time signatures (as in recitative, some avant garde music, or plainchant), or else the current time signature is ignored (as in a cadenza). Sometimes several instruments can play free rhythms at different speeds so that the notes don't even line up, as in aleatory music.

    Does this fit what you are looking for?

    -Kevin
    We are the music makers, we are the dreamers of dreams …
    24" 2.4 Ghz iMac, OSX 10.4.10, MOTU 828 MKII, 2 Glyph 250 Gig external drives, Logic 9, Finale 2008 GPO, JABB, Strad, Gro, Reason 4, EWQL Storm Drum, Adrenaline, Symphonic Choirs, SO Gold,All Arturia Synths, Many NI Synths, Spectrasonics Synths, KH Strings, VEPro on a Windows 7 4x 2.8 Ghz 12 gig of RAM

  5. #5
    Senior Member rwayland's Avatar
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    Re: Notation Problems: Finale/Sibelius Solutions?

    Quote Originally Posted by LFO
    imagegod,
    Sibelius 3 has a feature called Free Rhythm that allows you to (quoting from the manual) "input the music in one long bar or in several shorter bars with invisible barlines." ..."Music in free rhythm means that there ar eno time signatures (as in recitative, some avant garde music, or plainchant), or else the current time signature is ignored (as in a cadenza). Sometimes several instruments can play free rhythms at different speeds so that the notes don't even line up, as in aleatory music.

    Does this fit what you are looking for?

    -Kevin
    Well, it sure is what I have been looking for. I knew it could be done in Sibelius, but had forgotten how. The last time I tried such a thing, it was using SCORE. Well, now I can haul out my song based on my translation of an 13th century German poem. Thanks, Kevin!

  6. #6

    Thumbs up Re: Notation Problems: Finale/Sibelius Solutions?

    Quote Originally Posted by LFO
    imagegod,
    Sibelius 3 has a feature called Free Rhythm that allows you to (quoting from the manual) "input the music in one long bar or in several shorter bars with invisible barlines." ..."Music in free rhythm means that there ar eno time signatures (as in recitative, some avant garde music, or plainchant), or else the current time signature is ignored (as in a cadenza). Sometimes several instruments can play free rhythms at different speeds so that the notes don't even line up, as in aleatory music.

    Does this fit what you are looking for?

    -Kevin
    It sounds like it very well may be...could you let me know how playback is employed without a time signature? Does it simply use a 'Beats per Minute' function, like a sequencer?

    Any help defining this function would be greatly appreciated!

    Thanks!

  7. #7

    Talking Re: Notation Problems: Finale/Sibelius Solutions?

    Glad to hear it was helpful, rwayland.

    Image,
    As far as I can tell, you set a tempo and go. I'd recommend you download the demo and verify that it meets your needs. I've never had occasion to use free rhythm, so my insight is pretty limited. Good luck!

    -Kevin
    We are the music makers, we are the dreamers of dreams …
    24" 2.4 Ghz iMac, OSX 10.4.10, MOTU 828 MKII, 2 Glyph 250 Gig external drives, Logic 9, Finale 2008 GPO, JABB, Strad, Gro, Reason 4, EWQL Storm Drum, Adrenaline, Symphonic Choirs, SO Gold,All Arturia Synths, Many NI Synths, Spectrasonics Synths, KH Strings, VEPro on a Windows 7 4x 2.8 Ghz 12 gig of RAM

  8. #8

    Thumbs up Re: Notation Problems: Finale/Sibelius Solutions?

    Thanks all...your help is impressive and most welcome.

    By the way, I finally got SmartScore to work with GPO Studio, so I'm finally making music.

    To all those who have helped with the various and sundry problems I've had to this point...muchas gracias!

    And to those who will help with all the various and sundry problems I know I'm going to have in the future...many thanks in advance!!

  9. #9

    Post Re: Notation Problems: Finale/Sibelius Solutions?

    Imagegod,
    Here is the text from the help file:

    Free rhythm

    Music in free rhythm means that there are no time signatures (as in recitative, some avant garde music, or plainchant), or else the current time signature is ignored (as in a cadenza). Sometimes several instruments can play free rhythms at different speeds so that the notes don’t even line up, as in aleatory music.

    Normal free rhythm

    For free rhythm in just one instrument, or in several where the rhythms align, create irregular bars of appropriate lengths (choose Create > Bar > Other, shortcut Alt+B or Opt-B) into which to put the music.

    Depending on the type of music, you can input the music in one long bar or in several shorter bars with invisible barlines. The latter has the advantage that the music can split at any of the invisible barlines, which will be required for a long cadenza that wouldn’t fit on one system. The downside is that the extra bars will upset the bar numbering, though you can correct this by putting an appropriate bar number change at the end (see Bar numbers).

    Further information

    For more details on notating cadenzas, recitatives, music using multiple simultaneous time signatures and so on, consult the Free rhythm topic in your User Guide.

    -Kevin
    We are the music makers, we are the dreamers of dreams …
    24" 2.4 Ghz iMac, OSX 10.4.10, MOTU 828 MKII, 2 Glyph 250 Gig external drives, Logic 9, Finale 2008 GPO, JABB, Strad, Gro, Reason 4, EWQL Storm Drum, Adrenaline, Symphonic Choirs, SO Gold,All Arturia Synths, Many NI Synths, Spectrasonics Synths, KH Strings, VEPro on a Windows 7 4x 2.8 Ghz 12 gig of RAM

  10. #10

    Talking Re: Notation Problems: Finale/Sibelius Solutions?

    Wow! So helpful. This is very much appreciated!

    Thanks again.

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