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Topic: So somebody help me with this...

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  1. #1

    So somebody help me with this...

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    The Russian school massacre. Isn't this a different kind of evil than we've experienced before? I suppose WWII purposely killed children in camps, but specifically targeting a school with kids. There is something newly awful and different about this - isn't there?

  2. #2
    Senior Member
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    Re: So somebody help me with this...

    Quote Originally Posted by Joanne Babunovic
    The Russian school massacre. Isn't this a different kind of evil than we've experienced before? I suppose WWII purposely killed children in camps, but specifically targeting a school with kids. There is something newly awful and different about this - isn't there?
    Yes, I thought that too. This is more than indiscriminate targeting.

    Don't all humans have an instinctive protective sentiment towards children? I guess they calculated that, by surpressing their own sentiments in order to be prepared to kill hundreds of children, they had a greater chance of their demands being met. The Russian government had previously shown they are prepared to risk lives of hostages to end a crisis by force, but would surely balk at risking the lives of a schoolful of children. It looked initially like the terrorists' ruthless calculation might pay off, before it went wrong.

    Think of the precedent that would have been set had they succeeded

  3. #3
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    Unhappy Re: So somebody help me with this...

    Quote Originally Posted by Joanne Babunovic
    The Russian school massacre. Isn't this a different kind of evil than we've experienced before? I suppose WWII purposely killed children in camps, but specifically targeting a school with kids. There is something newly awful and different about this - isn't there?

    Well yes, there is Joanne. We are now being told through reports that this was planned and explosives and weapons were hidden in the school during the summer vacation. That's fairly premeditated, when they more or less know what the outcome is going to be. WWII and the incidents you are specifically thinking of, is apparently not part of their memory or even knowledge, for all I know.

    You need to understand that after 9/11 - literally one day after, during a question time program in Great Britain, certain members of the audience rejoiced over the fact. In my view, they were lucky to get out of the studio alive, based on the reaction from other members of the audience. This is what you're dealing with. Forget politics for a moment and think in human terms - that's not an unreasonable thing to request - but from experience, apparently it is.

  4. #4

    Re: So somebody help me with this...

    I've been reading all the major paper's articles on this. The pictures on the Washington Post site will be in my mind for a long time. I'm astonished that people can sink so low.

    I'm also dumbfounded by the apparent idiocy of the hostage takers. I don't by any means approve of Russia's treatment of the Chechens, but surely someone should be able to see that killing children consolidates the entire world against the rebel cause. If I could afford it, I'd take out a page in major world newspapers with a list explaining why terrorism is an enormous mistake:

    1. You demonstrate that you are completely immoral, that you are murderers of innocents, and thus have deserted any claim to acting for a just cause.
    2. You demonstrate that you practice the very atrocities that you accuse your enemies of.
    3. You consolidate all of your opponents against you. (And quickly: with pictures spreading across the internet in minutes, you instantly consolidate huge masses of civilian and government opposition against your cause. This means other countries will provide military and financial support to those you intend to damage, and will turn a blind eye to violent retribution.)
    4. By instilling fear, you encourage the people you attack to elect officials who support strong military responses. You thus risk the lives of innocents in your homeland.
    5. You demonstate that you do not hold the religious beliefs that you claim.
    6. You smear those religious beliefs, and true Muslims, with the blood of children, increasing Western hostility towards a region it does not understand.
    7. There are well known ways to gain the ears and eyes of the world: videotapes of living conditions and atrocities in your native land, articles submitted to world newpapers and magazines, written pleas to other countries' governments, appearences before governmental bodies, ads in newspapers and magazines: these are what make the world understand your cause. Killing children will not make the world support you.

  5. #5

    Re: So somebody help me with this...

    Agreed. Jake hit the nail on the head.

    All I can conclude is that they wanted to instill hatred to bring about civil unrest. They want the conflict to blow up big, and they could think of no better way to create deep hatred and sew the seeds for future violent reactions.

    I can't imagine that they seriously expected to negotiate anything. They expected many to die, including themselves. It's not like their demands were going to be met and they could get away scott free. They understood from the beginning that this was a one-way road.

    I would have liked to have heard more condemnation from the Chechyn and Muslim leaders. (Maybe they did, but I missed it. I've been busy and haven't followed this very deeply.)

    On the positive side, maybe others will see the path where terrorism leads and will reject it. We can only hope.

    I hope that these terrorists never achieve any of their goals through this most dispicable of acts.

    -JF

  6. #6

    Re: So somebody help me with this...

    Thanks Ern, Beckers, Paul Jon, Jake. Hearing expressions - especially from both camps of emotion and pragmatic view (Jake), helps.

    There is some stronger than usual internal condeming:
    http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cg...600EDT0452.DTL

  7. #7

    Re: So somebody help me with this...

    Quote Originally Posted by Joanne Babunovic
    Thanks Ern, Beckers, Paul Jon, Jake. Hearing expressions - especially from both camps of emotion and pragmatic view (Jake), helps.

    There is some stronger than usual internal condeming:
    http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cg...600EDT0452.DTL
    If you read closely, it's just more of the same old same old crap...They are more concerned with the harming of Islam's image than the barbarity of its actions. And, of course, there's this nugget:

    "Ali Abdullah, a Bahraini scholar who follows the ultraconservative Salafi stream of Islam, condemned the school attack as "un-Islamic," but insisted Muslims weren't behind it.

    "I have no doubt in my mind that this is the work of the Israelis who want to tarnish the image of Muslims and are working alongside Russians who have their own agenda against the Muslims in Chechnya," said Abdullah."

    This article nails it, though.

  8. #8

    Unhappy Re: So somebody help me with this...

    This sums it up --> http://www.siliconaudiolabs.com/media/russia.jpg <--

    Pic taken as parents identify their children.

    Please no political rants or flames. I'm just too sick to go there.

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