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Topic: Performance with multi instances

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  1. #1

    Performance with multi instances

    Hi

    Naive questions from beginner :

    1. I have been loading a new instance for each solo instrument I use as I haven't needed ensembles yet. Will I save on RAM use or CPU performance if I load several instruments into one instance?

    2. And if I do that, do I just assign the midi channel number to each separate instance and have them each on a separate naive track?

    3. Will this also reduce the number of mixer channels I get?

    4. I get a standard Cubase Midi channel for a GPO instrument which doesn't seem to affect the volume, plus a channel further along the mixer that does. Why is this?

    (Hope that's clear)

    Thanks in advance
    Tim Nolan
    Using Cubase SX. Mac G4 Dual 1.42. GPO

  2. #2

    Re: Performance with multi instances

    Hi Tim,
    Welcome to GPO. You're going to love this product.

    I use SONAR, not CUBASE, on a PC, not a Mac, but I can answer some of your questions:

    Quote Originally Posted by timnolan
    1. I have been loading a new instance for each solo instrument I use as I haven't needed ensembles yet. Will I save on RAM use or CPU performance if I load several instruments into one instance?
    Yes to both. Use one instance to load several instruments. Logical grouping of instruments in player instances helps me to keep things organized. See next question.

    2. And if I do that, do I just assign the midi channel number to each separate instance and have them each on a separate native track?
    Each instrument "slot" in the GPO Kontakt player can be (and is by default) assigned to a separate midi channel in each player instance. Route each midi instrument track in CUBASE to a target player instance/midi channel into which you've loaded your instruments.

    For illustration purposes, load one of the multis into a Kontakt player instance, say, the string quartet, and you'll see how this is done. You can drive the one player instance with several different midi tracks, one for each "slot" in the player.

    3. Will this also reduce the number of mixer channels I get?
    Maybe you're asking if this will reduce the number of "return" tracks. See next question.

    4. I get a standard Cubase Midi channel for a GPO instrument which doesn't seem to affect the volume, plus a channel further along the mixer that does. Why is this?
    <GUESS> The first track in CUBASE is the midi channel that contains your midi sequence. Route this to a midi channel in a Kontakt player instance that contains the voice you're trying to drive. The second track is where the output of the player instance is routed back to CUBASE. You'll probably have one of these for each Kontakt player instance.
    </GUESS>

    There's an option in the Kontakt player: Use Std. CC#7/CC#10 Volume and Pan--that determines whether the Kontakt player will respond to pan and volume settings from the midi track. This is off by default. You can turn it on, but it's been recommended to me that you should not normally need to adjust the volume and pan of the instruments. Their volume settings are such that when the entire orchestra is played, the overall volume will not exceed 0 dB. Similarly, the pan settings conform to a standard orchestra layout as depicted in the booklet that comes with GPO.

    If necessary, you can adjust the relative volumes on the player output tracks.
    Bill

  3. #3

    Re: Performance with multi instances

    Just a couple of extra tidbits since I do use the included Cubase (I'm just a poor boy). Anyways, for every instrument that you load into the GPO player you take up two mixer channels (left and right.) This next bit may be confusing but if you'll run through it in Cubase you'll see what I'm talking about. However, if you do not assign the channel output of each instrument in the Kontakt player they will all go to the same mixer channels (1 & 2). That said, you could have 8 instruments loaded into 1 GPO Player instance. You will have 16 mixing channels (8 stereo pairs) in Cubase that will be taken up with that instance of GPO. If you assign each instrument to a different stereo pair, you can control each independantly in the mixing station. This is probably where you want to perform your panning and volume adjustments rather than in the midi track. I hope this hasn't confused you. And yes, for every instrument you use you lose 1 stereo channel in the mixer. You can only have 24 stereo channels in the included Cubase so you will indefinitely run out at some point (especially in larger orchestrations or when you are using GPO with other VST's.) An alternative to using GPO as a VST is to use Studio therefor saving yourself all the mixing channels. With this you run into some driver conflicts and the problem of getting the audio back into Cubase. There's a myriad of ways of setting this all up. My recommendation would be to use the included Cubase for the short term until the limitations begin to impose on your compositions, then you might want to look at at least upgrading to Cubase SE which allows you to load more instances of GPO.

    Whew, what a rant.

  4. #4

    Re: Performance with multi instances

    Thanks very much billp and Joseph for your thorough (and swift) replies.
    I will try re-arranging some instances in songs in the manner you have suggested.

    BTW I have the full Cubase SX not the Cubasis, so the limit on instances should not be too bad..if I ever need so many.
    I am mainly doing pop/rock, adding some orchestration, so the main problem I have had is CPU overload when I have audio plus loads of VSTs.

    Hopefully your advice will ease the load.

    Cheers guys!

  5. #5

    Re: Performance with multi instances

    Well, since that is the case then you have unlimited mixer channels as well as VST instances, so no worry there. Just remember that most panning and volume control is better done in the mixer. It's pretty easy to assign the output of each instrument in the Kontakt player, so that shouldn't be an issue. That is the easiest way I can think of to control each instrument.

  6. #6

    Re: Performance with multi instances

    Another thing to remember when deciding on whether to bundle up instruments in instances is that each instance can only be processed through one series of effects/audio routings. That means if you want a different amount of reverb, compression, eq or anything else for different groups of instruments, they'll have to be in different instances.

    For example, I might want more reverb on strings than on piano. I make sure to break this up into two instances, and process each to taste. Recently I decided I wanted heavy compression on the bass drum (makes a fantastic WHOMP!). I had to load it in its own instance in order to keep other instruments from being similarly compressed.

    Also, if you haven't already heard this trick, make a copy of the GPO plugin, and give it another name. That way, you can have one of them use CC64 as sustain, and the other as legato. The Kontakt player will not otherwise let mix usage of that controller.
    - Jamie Kowalski

    All Hands Music - Kowalski on the web
    The Ear Is Always Correct - Writings on composition

  7. #7

    Re: Performance with multi instances

    If you assign each instrument in each instance to a seperate output you can apply individual reverb to each mixer channel thus mixing each differently.

  8. #8

    Re: Performance with multi instances

    Thanks Skysaw. Great advice guys. I am most grateful.

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