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Topic: Upgrade or Competitive Cross Grade?

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  1. #1

    Exclamation Upgrade or Competitive Cross Grade?

    I could use some advice. Hopefully this won't lead to bashing or fighting.

    I currently use on my Mac 466 Logic PLAT 4.8 with ESX and Giga on the PC side. I wish to upgrade my sequencer. To upgrade to Logic PRO 6 it's about $600 at Saved by Technology. However, I can crossgrade to Motu DP or Cubase for about $350.

    My long term goal is scoring for picture. Over the last few years, I haven't hated Logic, but I have never found it intutitve and WAY too user definable. I prefer my Pro Tools over the mixing capabilities of Logic. The steep upgrade price and Logics learning curve are making me rethink sequencers.

    I work as a film mixer by day but score at night. I haven't purchased any orchestras YET, but plan to over the next few months. I use Giga demo samples and Miroslav mini converted for the ESX.

    I would like a sequencer that's more intuitive with good/easy notation. In the 80s I used Master Track Pro, in the 90s I used Opcode Vision, and then in 2001 I bought Logic. Before Logic, I rarely touched the manuals of Vision or Pro except for specific operations. Everything in my earlier sequencers seemed right at my fingertips including controlling midi data and adjusting notation. With Logic, I had to look at the manual to get the metronome working. I knew some film composers who used Logic and some european artists that dug it so I dived into Logic.

    However there are aspects of Logic I enjoy. I will say I really like the emagic soft synths I own: EVP88, ES1, and ESX (which I've used on a project or two.). Having ESX loaded with samples is really easy, because everything is there in your sequencer.

    I'm just ticked that the upgrade is a lot. I might as will have version Logic 3 or the Big Box cause upgrades from both are $600. To me, thats the cost of GPO and a DP 4.0 cross grade.

    One ave I might explore with Logic is that my wife might has an Apple educational discount and may be able to get Logic 6 or 7? for about the same price of my upgrade.

    Thanks to Trond, H3, and Rich who already PM me their thoughts.

    If there are folks that love logic for Composing I like to hear from them. But I also would like to hear some of the advantages of Cubase or DP.

    So upgrade and stay apple/emagic or cross grade to something new?

    Sincerely,

    Jonathan

  2. #2

    Re: Upgrade or Competitive Cross Grade?

    Well, first of all Logic has come a long way since 4.8! Emagic has done lots to Appleize the program and word has it that the upcoming Logic 7 will make it even more intuitive. You might want to wait at least a month or so to see what Apple has in store for Logic, otherwise you might change sequencer just when things are getting good with Logic!

    Secondly, I wouldn't consider Pro Tools to have adequate tools for scoring to picture.

    If you really must switch, consider that Digital Performer which many describe as the most intuitive of the bunch might very well be on its way out. MOTU hasn't updated the app in a while and all signs seem to be pointing to the company focusing mostly on what makes them way more money and is not pirateable....hardware!

    That would leave Cubase if you still are interested in operating on the Mac platform. There are many great things about Cubase, and I would say that it's probably Logic's biggest competition right now.

    Once again, I would advise you to hang in there at least a month or so to see what Logic 7 brings to the table, it might just have what you need!
    >>Kays
    http://www.musicbykays.com
    Music Composition for Feature Films, Television and Interactive Entertainment

  3. #3

    Re: Upgrade or Competitive Cross Grade?

    I too had to move on from SVP SVP is why I became a mac user.
    at the time the advice I was given was that Logic was way over priced and butt ugly. A friend had Cubase, I liked the vst part, but didn't care for it's lack of MIDI tools, which I liked in SVP(I liked "scale time" and the "random tool" others have these, but they don't work the same). Cubase just felt cheap to me. I went on looks alone, I went with the best looking of them all.... DP
    DP had a comp. upgrade, and something to get it to act like SVP(which I never got to work right ) after awhile I got accustomed working with it. there are alot stuff I like better than SVP, even though the scale time and the random tool doesn't work the same. I'm happy with it.... and she's a looker how can one be inspired when they're looking at butt uglyness?

    I wonder what SVP would be like if it was still around....

  4. #4

    Re: Upgrade or Competitive Cross Grade?

    Midphase,

    Thanks for replying. I've noticed you are a Mac/ESX advocate and sorry I didn't PM you earlier.

    Well, first of all Logic has come a long way since 4.8! Emagic has done lots to Appleize the program and word has it that the upcoming Logic 7 will make it even more intuitive. You might want to wait at least a month or so to see what Apple has in store for Logic, otherwise you might change sequencer just when things are getting good with Logic!
    Hmm. Yeah, I only heard of 7 this week. Can you give me an example of something appleized in Logic?

    Secondly, I wouldn't consider Pro Tools to have adequate tools for scoring to picture.
    I agree, as I mentioned in my post, I like thie mixing capability, but not even close for scoring.

    Once again, I would advise you to hang in there at least a month or so to see what Logic 7 brings to the table, it might just have what you need!
    yup, I may hold off and see how much they charge. It's just that price GEEZE, I might as well get something new.

    Sincerely

  5. #5
    Senior Member
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    Re: Upgrade or Competitive Cross Grade?

    I'm with midphase on this.

    Granted, I'm a Logic user (have been since 4.5), so I hope I don't appear to be pushing the platform I use.

    The truth is, most of what's available is quite good, so I think it comes down to what computer platform you prefer. If you are staying with mac, Logic just seems like a strong, obvious candidate. Ever since Apple acquired Emagic, things have consistently gotten better, and like midphase mentioned, the forth coming Logic 7 is rumored to be even more "Apple-like".

    I'm a bit surprised that as a Logic owner, you hadn't stayed up with the updates. Even with the paid upgrades to 5, 6 and then Pro, you would have still spent less money than you're being faced with spending now. I guess that's water under the bridge however...

    Logic is a solid application. Seriously, wait a bit, and do some more research in the meantime.

  6. #6

    Re: Upgrade or Competitive Cross Grade?

    ngstime

    Quote Originally Posted by ngstime
    I too had to move on from SVP SVP is why I became a mac user.
    at the time the advice I was given was that Logic was way over priced and butt ugly. A friend had Cubase, I liked the vst part, but didn't care for it's lack of MIDI tools, which I liked in SVP(I liked "scale time" and the "random tool" others have these, but they don't work the same).?
    Yup, I miss vision, but I knew I had to move on. I tried Cubase way back in the 90s an chose to use Vision.
    Do you enjoy composing in DP? Did you just not look at Logic?

    I wonder what SVP would be like if it was still around....
    well we can dream.
    Thanks for your response.

  7. #7

    Re: Upgrade or Competitive Cross Grade?

    Jaimo,

    I'm with midphase on this.

    Granted, I'm a Logic user (have been since 4.5), so I hope I don't appear to be pushing the platform I use.
    First computer was a Mac SE. If I had a preference over platform, it'd be Mac. I have a PC for Gigastudio only.

    If you are staying with mac, Logic just seems like a strong, obvious candidate. Ever since Apple acquired Emagic, things have consistently gotten better, and like midphase mentioned, the forth coming Logic 7 is rumored to be even more "Apple-like".
    hmm. I hope that's the case, because it could influence my decision. My writing time is limited because of my other film work so I really like to sit down and think about music.

    I'm a bit surprised that as a Logic owner, you hadn't stayed up with the updates. Even with the paid upgrades to 5, 6 and then Pro, you would have still spent less money than you're being faced with spending now. I guess that's water under the bridge however...
    Point well taken. I think when I saw the 5 upgrade, I really didn't take it too seriously. Even though I went to an Emagic demo sposored by a local vendor, I thought, 'well I'm not that deep into the software yet.' I was still a newbie and learning how the thing work. Also, I didn't priortize that aspect of my work-more money went to my recording gear.
    BUT The other thing is that up until Apple bought Emagic, even as late as last fall; you could nationally buy the 4 to 5 upgrade! I know becuase I did keep tabs on the versions. Saved by Technology and even the Emagic USA offered the 4 to 5 upgrade. So I made a bad assumption that they would always be there.

    Logic is a solid application. Seriously, wait a bit, and do some more research in the meantime.
    Yeah, I'll keep looking around.

    Thank you for your advice.

  8. #8

    Re: Upgrade or Competitive Cross Grade?

    Hi JohnnyP,

    Lots of good advice so far. I will also recommend that you hang tight for a little while longer rather than switching sequencing platforms as well. Unfortunately, where you're at with Logic is a standard thing when it comes to upgrades. It happens on other sequencers as well. The further you lag behind on upgrades, the more it will cost you.

    Only time will tell if Logic 7 will be a huge leap as many suggest. I personally think that there will be some announcement either at AES or at winter NAMM on Logic 7. If Apple has taken some control and providing some direction on Logic 7, many have been predicting that it will make a big splash just as Final Cut Pro Ver. 3 did for video editing. All of this is purely speculation though and you shouldn't put too much weight until facts come out.

    Hanging tight for a little while longer may be the best thing for you to do if you are able to at this time. There are many good things in Logic Pro 6 and version 7 will only add more. It costs you nothing other than time. I personally don't think that making a choice based on butt-ugliness (or lack thereof) is not very wise. Workflow, intuitiveness, and power are better aspects to focus on.

    HTH,
    FV

    p.s. - I've been a Logic user since version 2.5 so I've kind of always found it intuitive. But that's just me.

  9. #9

    Re: Upgrade or Competitive Cross Grade?

    FV,

    I will also recommend that you hang tight for a little while longer rather than switching sequencing platforms as well. Unfortunately, where you're at with Logic is a standard thing when it comes to upgrades. It happens on other sequencers as well. The further you lag behind on upgrades, the more it will cost you.
    Yeah, I know. Sucks. My wife may be able to buy Pro 6 new at her educational discount. It'd be $100 cheaper than if I upgade myself AND about only $50 more if I had done 4 to 5 to 6 to PRO. So maybe I'll sweet talk her.

    Hanging tight for a little while longer may be the best thing for you to do if you are able to at this time. There are many good things in Logic Pro 6 and version 7 will only add more. It costs you nothing other than time. I personally don't think that making a choice based on butt-ugliness (or lack thereof) is not very wise. Workflow, intuitiveness, and power are better aspects to focus on.
    Yeah, I guess I waited this long, I could just keep working. I don't have any paying gigs using it yet. Thanks for your imput.

    p.s. - I've been a Logic user since version 2.5 so I've kind of always found it intuitive. But that's just me.
    hmmm. I guess it's just varies by user. I orignally got it and did about two free upgrades. Some people really like the user defined aspects. I do find it frustrating when I go to the manual to find an operation and it says, 'User Definable' with no short cut or key code or anything.

    Thanks again,

    Jonathan

  10. #10

    Re: Upgrade or Competitive Cross Grade?

    Hi JohnnyP,

    You could try the Logic User Group at yahoo as well. Tons of mails but all specific to Logic. It is where I primarily learned things that allowed me to get deeper into the program. If you have specific questions, you can usually get them answered there pretty quickly. Check your PM as well.

    FV

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