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Topic: GS3- Channel Change v. Patch Change

  1. #1

    GS3- Channel Change v. Patch Change

    INTRODUCTION: (may want to just skip ahead to the question if short on time)
    I've been enjoying GS3 Orchestra for the past 12 or so hours- I've noticed that with this software it has been initially much easier to switch instruments through channel changes vs bank/patch # changes.
    My sequencer is Finale (I know, I know), and in the past with 2.54 I had best luck by editing each instrument to have a specific bank and patch number. I would then load all instruments needed in GS160- My sequencer would send the patch requests and like magic all of the instruments "fell into place" at the appropriate channels.
    So far this approach doesn't work the same (esp. with bank changes) with GS3, and I've experimented by adding channel changes instead of patch # changes in Finale- this does seem to work... so far.
    I'm assuming that this approach may actually be much simpler than the previous way of editing every instrument to have the correct bank/patch #- now I can just put a sample on the desired channel # and go from there.

    Am I missing something here- will I run into problems with this approach? And if this is good, then can I assume that patch/bank numbers in the sequencer will no longer matter as long as I have the correct channel settings?

    Scenario- if a piece begins with sustained clarinet but later switches to staccato, instead of changing instrument through patch change I'll now just designate a new channel to switch to in the sequencer.
    Sustained: Chan. 1
    Staccato: Chan. 2
    (Patch/Bank numbers don't matter?)

  2. #2

    Re: GS3- Channel Change v. Patch Change

    I am hoping this is a bug that will be fixed in gs3 soon. For the moment, changing channels works better -- but you can not just leave your old patch changes in place, because they are not ignored, just missed SOMETIMES. Where there are bank changes involved, I've gotten incomplete changes, choosing an instrument number appropriate to one bank along with the bank number for a different instrument on a different bank.

    So, I think you'd have a mess with changing channels AND patches.

    Not sure, though -- it would be great if you'd do some experimenting with finale both ways, and post results. One thing I've noticed is that patch changes where the Bank number changes also are the ones that gs3 fails on most regularly -- but it also fails on simple patch changes with no bank changes.

  3. #3
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jul 1999
    Winsted, CT

    Re: GS3- Channel Change v. Patch Change

    Patch changes by themselves seem to work fine. I don't use Bank changes, so can't comment on that yet.

    There are 3 different types of Patch/Bank change message. Are you sure you're using the right type? The GSEdit help files doesn't say which one to use. It does however state incorectly the maximum number of Banks as 127. In fact, it is 16,388.

  4. #4

    Re: GS3- Channel Change v. Patch Change

    I've tried all three that are offered by sonar 3PE:

    a controller 0 bank change followed by program change
    a controller 32 bank change followed by program change

    both those, with the controller 32 as a least-significant-byte and controller 0 as a most-significant byte (did'nt try the reverse, though ...)

    a program change 100 followed by another program change (this is probably for some older hardware synths, but didn't work anyway).

    BIll, if you get time, could you look at the 'midi view' on gs3 and see what messages your sequencer sends to gigastudio?

  5. #5
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jul 1999
    Winsted, CT

    Re: GS3- Channel Change v. Patch Change

    Your mean the MIDI Monitor?

    Interesting! I'm using Finale also. Never knew it sent all those controller messages.

    What did you want to look for?

  6. #6

    Re: GS3- Channel Change v. Patch Change

    Ok, first thanks for your initial help!
    If I want to go with the instrument change by channel change route, which might be the best and most simple way with GS3 at the moment, won't there need to be an initial instrument patch number (a sequencer requirement)?

    With the channel change route, it'd be great to assign a stave (or track) to just a channel # without a MIDI instrument #/bank #. Then, in Finale at least, when you need to switch to another patch just have the staff switch to the next desired channel with appropriate instrument.

    How might this be achieved in the sequencer- ignoring program change #s/bank #s and using strictly channel #s? Or does the initial patch # mean anything as long as it does not change throughout the piece?

    I'm away from home, but will do much experimenting with this later- perhaps somebody can help out before then. I hope I'm not on the completely wrong path with this- if there is an easier way to change instruments mid-performance through sequencer command please let it be known.

    Thanks again.

  7. #7

    Re: GS3- Channel Change v. Patch Change

    Good luck, Lickety. Have only seen a few mentions of finale and gigastudio 3 so far, so you are one of the leaders!

    Bill, yes, I meant the midi monitor -- if you could set just one program change and one note in a midi sequence, then clear the midi monitor, then start playing -- what do you get?

  8. #8

    Re: GS3- Channel Change v. Patch Change

    iMIDI filter - program change???
    I'm going to experiment with GS3/Finale04 by changing instruments stricktly by channel # vs patch/bank #.
    I'll let ya'll know if the iMIDI filter works a a solution for easily switching instruments via channel (at least with my setup).

  9. #9

    Re: GS3- Channel Change v. Patch Change

    Nevermind previous post- I am definately having good luck with bank select 32, program change. GS3 is recognizing all changes (so far) with this setting in my sequencer- Finale.
    Hope I'm not beating a dead horse- just thought anybody else using Finale and GS3 might find this information useful- as previous methods that worked in 2.54 don't seem to work as well with the new, and great, GS3.

  10. #10

    Re: GS3- Channel Change v. Patch Change

    Interesting, I'm also using Finale04 (and Cubase) and GS, although being in Europe I haven't gotten my hands on GS3.0 yet (who knows when...). I do expect that the patch/bank change will function as before eventually...


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