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Topic: Question about DFD (please help)

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  1. #1

    Question Question about DFD (please help)

    I have room for 1 GB of RAM and that has proven NOT to be enough for what I need to accomplish with GPO. I've been thinking about DFD... and... on this board, I get the impression that streaming Direct from Disk is noticeably slower than working with RAM. If so, this would cripple the work process for myself. I really don't need that. From what I understand, the concept of DFD means no limits on what I want to load into Kontakt or the Kontakt Player update for GPO that's supposedly coming out. Since I cannot fit any more RAM onto my PC... would the use of DFD mean things would work slower in terms of playback and real-time recording?
    I'm really looking into buying the Kontakt sampler because of DFD plus, I need to use the sampler for other types of music besides orchestral. I am also looking into getting GOS to add to the Personal Orchestra I already have and just for working on string writing alone.

    To sum up....

    would the use of DFD mean things would work slower in terms of playback and real-time recording (in comparison to RAM)?
    what features of GOS are available for GigaStudio but not for Kontakt?

    Thanks

  2. #2

    Re: Question about DFD (please help)

    I too have found that 1GB RAM is inadequite for large GPO projects, even for the "1GB" benchmark that was posted here.

    Doing DFD isn't necessarily *slower* than running out of RAM, but is makes things less predictable and requires more system tweaking and maintenence. In RAM, the access time to every sample is constant and fast. Streaming from disk, how far ahead of time the sampler needs to request a disk block is a complex function of file layout on the disk, the disk's rotational latency, the disk controller/driver, etc.

    There have been hints, but no hard promises, that the upcoming GPO update patch will include a version of the Kontakt player that can handle DFD, so unless you're in a desperate rush, you might want to hold off on buying full Kontakt.

  3. #3

    Re: Question about DFD (please help)

    Using Kontakt 1.5.3 with DFD here. No issues what so ever. Not sure what people mean by "Slower" . with decent hard disks and good PC I have not had an issue.

  4. #4

    Re: Question about DFD (please help)

    88Chopin,

    If your system is tweaked properly you shouldn't notice any obvious increase in latency with DFD. DFD is more demanding on CPU and you probably will notice that. RAM loading is more direct and will always give performance advantages (CPU usage, polyphony, THEORETICAL latency) for a given computer but, depending on your system and the particular instruments you are using, DFD can give you the advantage of getting better mileage out of limited RAM. This is primarily true for larger instruments like the piano. There shouldn't be anything about DFD that slows your work.

    Tom

  5. #5
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    Re: Question about DFD (please help)

    I've used GPO in Kontakt with DFD and noticed the higher CPU hit which cuts down on polyphony. Instead of getting 200 stereo voices, I get about 140.

    There is not much RAM savings with most of the GPO instruments except for the Piano.

  6. #6

    Re: Question about DFD (please help)

    Quote Originally Posted by CHudson
    Using Kontakt 1.5.3 with DFD here. No issues what so ever. Not sure what people mean by "Slower" . with decent hard disks and good PC I have not had an issue.
    CHudson, what are your computer specs?

    Guys, that CPU talk kind of worries me.... I basically would like to use the whole Symphonic orchestra with no issues. Is that even possible?

    BTW, thanks for the responses.... do you think all of you could just tell me your computer specs?

    Thanks.

  7. #7

    Re: Question about DFD (please help)

    88 I would say that the full version of Kontakt might be a wise investment. What I've done in the past is load the particularly RAM hungry patches into Kontakt (the larger keyswitch patches, the piano, harp, etc.) while keeping the smaller patches (string ensembles, brass ensembles, etc.) in the player. You could also load based on voice/polyphony need between the two keeping the more polyphony instruments in the player loading from RAM while loading the less used instruments in the full Kontakt using DFD. This would give you many options. I've done this successfully, so its another idea. You will definitely notice a decrease in performance when going to DFD. There's no other way around it. If you choose to go the DFD route, just make sure that you move your samples to a seperate hard drive and load them from there. This will alleviate some strain from the processor and OS drive.

  8. #8

    Re: Question about DFD (please help)

    Quote Originally Posted by 88chopin
    Guys, that CPU talk kind of worries me.... I basically would like to use the whole Symphonic orchestra with no issues. Is that even possible?
    Put 4GB of RAM on your computer (32-bit Windows will only let you use 3.5GB of it, but what the heck), you should have enough memory to hold the OS, GPO, and the whole sample library.

  9. #9
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    Exclamation Re: Question about DFD (please help)

    Does anyone understand the impact of "voice capacity" vis-a-vis non real-time "Export" such as that which Cubase SX 2 does? I was under the impression that it was more "forgiving" as to polyphony.

    It's easy to say "put 4 gig of RAM on your computer" but if you computer maxes RAM at 1 or 2 gig, even using the theoretical 32-bit Windows max of 3.5 gig is hardly possible. If I could buy my way out of capacity issues with just more RAM (a gig can be had for between $90 (PC2100) and $170 (PC4200) but there is no option to upgrade my motherboard for a reasonable figure to take the additional memory.

    If DFD doesn't make a large amount of additional voices possible, I will have to scrap my current 2.4 gHz P-4 with the scant 1 gig and upgrade to something with which I might ride the wave into 64-bit Windows and that will have the capacity for a commensurate amount of RAM (8 gig or so?).

    just my $0.02 -- KevinKauai

  10. #10

    Re: Question about DFD (please help)

    Quote Originally Posted by KevinKauai
    It's easy to say "put 4 gig of RAM on your computer" but if you computer maxes RAM at 1 or 2 gig, even using the theoretical 32-bit Windows max of 3.5 gig is hardly possible. If I could buy my way out of capacity issues with just more RAM (a gig can be had for between $90 (PC2100) and $170 (PC4200) but there is no option to upgrade my motherboard for a reasonable figure to take the additional memory.
    And some of us run GPO on laptops, which have even less upgradability. :-( My remark was in response to the question "Is it even *possible* to not be limited by hardware?". That doesn't make it easy, cheap, or even practical for all of us. I think that GPO's advertised "recommended configuration" of 1GB RAM is actually a little on the low side, and the cynical, computer industry veteran side of me wonders if they didn't low-ball that estimate to keep from scaring off potential users.

    But even if 1GB is a little light, I mentioned 4GB as necessary for having no hardware constraints whatsoever - having the entire sample set, piano, solo instruments and all, in RAM at once. It would be a very rare orchestral project that would actually require all of that. If you can put 2GB of RAM on your machine, you'll probably be pretty happy. I wish I could put 2GB on my Thinkpad. But I can't, so I'm looking to DFD to get me a little more headroom.

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