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Topic: GPO & MOTU's Mach 5

  1. #1
    New Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Overlooking NYC, from Weehawken, New Jersey, USA

    GPO & MOTU's Mach 5

    In the future...

    Will GPO ever be able to be loaded into anything other than Kontakt?

    I'm told it is in a proprietary format that only Kontakt can read.

    I'd love to use it within Mach 5.


  2. #2

    Re: GPO & MOTU's Mach 5

    Quote Originally Posted by Fun Ghoul
    In the future...

    Will GPO ever be able to be loaded into anything other than Kontakt?

    I'm told it is in a proprietary format that only Kontakt can read.

    I'd love to use it within Mach 5.

    I know the feeling.

    I bought GPO thinking I could use it in another sampler as well, but no...the samples are encrypted.

    Only way to edit them is using the full Kontakt sampler...so if you don't buy that you're not only stuck with the current programming...but you also have no way of using it on another platform.

    This is an extremely poor direction of things...because as we are already not being allowed as customers to sell the libraries if we want...the very LEAST we should be able to do is to be allowed to convert the samples to the platform of our choise once we paid for them.

    NI surely makes a lot of bucks forcing people into their domain like this...which is nothing short of shameful.

    Also, the lame copy protection argument used to motivate the encryption is 100% BS no matter how you slice it...so there's no reason whatsoever legitimate users should suffer for it.

  3. #3

    Re: GPO & MOTU's Mach 5


    Sorry, but probably not. GPO is so intricately programmed to the specific architecture of Kontakt that even if you could import it into another sampling platform it would not function correctly. Guaranteed. And the programming in the pending update is even more tightly and extensively programmed to the unique features of the Kontakt engine. GPO was never intended to run anyplace other than Kontakt and I’ve aggressively programmed things with that in mind. The good news is that you should be able to use GPO and Mach 5 simultaneously without problems. Mach 5 would be used for other instruments.

    R. Glenn,

    I once had a pedal car that wouldn’t float. I’ll never forgive them for that. They tried to explain to me that it was never intended to float. Excuses, excuses.


  4. #4

    Re: GPO & MOTU's Mach 5


    Seems to me you assume very much...more specifically: a) no one else can achieve the programming you did...and b) it can't be done with any other tool than the one of your choise.

    Needless to say...neither is necessarily true.

    Furthermore, what's with the sarcastic remarks?

    Whether you like it or not I'm a customer, and frankly I'm amazed that you don't know better than to act with more professional conduct towards a customer...especially according to your supposed status and association with a commercial and professional product.

    When you describe how GPO is intended to be used it is your intention. This does not mean that it cannot (or should not) be used in some other way.

    You were rude when I first asked about this subject (some time back) and I didn't say anything about it then becasue I try my best to give people a second chance. However, not only is there no apology in sight for the sarcastic remarks made then...but instead you chose to repeat them.

    I truly wonder if Gary really needs the negative image you give GPO by saying these things? Having worked as a customer support manager for a major company myself, I can only say that in my experience and where I come from...people have been sacked for less offensive conduct towards a customer.

    Fact is, you don't know the first thing about me...or what I can or cannot do. So I'd really appreciate it if you didn't give me that "he's just a little ignorant punk" routine.

    Like I said, I'm a customer...and no matter how silly my views might seem to you, making sarcastic remarks are still way out of line from a professional perspective. If you can't take criticism (which btw regardless of what you think makes perfect sense...or else this very thread wouldn't exist in the first place) regarding certain aspects of your product, then frankly that's your problem. It should still not reflect negatively upon me or any other customer for that matter. That's what part of being a pro is all about.

    Granted, we can all have a bad day and that's why I didn't say anything about it the first time it happened...however, this is the second time I've gotten these sarcastic remarks so I can't help but wonder.

    I hope I got my point across here. Not that it matters much, because situations like these doesn't really motivate me to hang out here much...if at all.

  5. #5

    Re: GPO & MOTU's Mach 5


    I am just wondering what is so wrong with the Kontakt player. Does it not integrate well with your other soft synths or samplers? What sampler do you envision it for? I use the player alongside Giga, the full Kontakt, and many other types of soft synths. I am just curious what it is about the architecture that leaves you wanting. Is it primarily the fact that the samples are encrypted and do not allow complete control to the user? I'm just curious. I am still new to all this as well and I haven't seen a need for it to be any other way just yet.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jun 2000
    Chandler, Arizona

    Re: GPO & MOTU's Mach 5


    I think your way off base and reading stuff into Tom's comments that he didn't say at all. Then you go off on your tirade.

    Have you really studied the programming in this library and other libraries out there? I don't think so.

    As Tom mentions, this library is really tied into the programming of Kontakt. I've compared QLSO, SAM Project and a few other libraries programming with GPO. The other products have very simplistic programming which is very easy to port to other samplers. GPO uses very difficult to do legato mode, flex envelopes, filtering, layering, etc. that just is not in the other libraries.

    There is no one else who has programmed a soft-sampler library to this amount of detail period! Even VSL is pretty bare-bones. Show me another library with this kind of programming and then you can prove me wrong.

    It was stated in many posts since the library was introduced that is probably wouldn't be ported to other formats. Tom is just stating it the way it is but you don't like his answer because your hung up on Mach 5. Your the only one voicing the negative opinion.

  7. #7

    Re: GPO & MOTU's Mach 5

    You know, I hate the fact that Audio Ease is errogant and makes their IR's only for their Altiverb, I should go find their forum and tell them how inconsiderate their programmers are. The nerve of them to not allow me to use the IR's with my other Convolution processors. I should at least be able to sell them. I should sell this piece of crap on Ebay but they won't let me. Geez

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Oct 2000
    Orcas Island

    Re: GPO & MOTU's Mach 5

    There is an emerging sampling platform that is eclipsing the proprietary samplers - the virtual instrument - where samples and player are integrated and inextricably linked. With a virtual instrument you have great flexibility in being able to plug your instrument in different formats and platforms rather than being tied to one proprietary format.

    When you buy a virtual instrument it is not expected that it will load in any sampler - particularly a proprietary sampler. GPO is not alone in not being able to support the proprietary samplers. The Spectasonics VIs do not load in all samplers, the EW VIs do not load in other samplers (aside from Kontakt), neither does Edirol Orchestra or DKFH, or any VI that I know of.

    A couple of years ago, Giga libraries could only be read in Gigasampler/studio. We released the GOS string library, the first super- library for that platform, and a few were not happy that it could not be loaded in AKAI, Roland or Kurzweil. Try as I could to explain that those hardware samplers were severely limited and simply did not have the features needed to make the samples work, some thought that they bought the library and it was their inherent right that the 700 MB should load in their 32 MB AKAI. Adapting GOS to those other formats was like using a buggy whip on a sports car.

    With Virtual Instruments there is the ability to create and program musical instruments the way we want rather than being confined to a proprietary sampler. Native Instruments gave us the choice of what features and processes we wanted in our player and we could customize it to fit our library. I chose the Kontakt Player because it had the features and customization we needed and supported many formats. At the time it was the only player readily available and copy protection had little to do with our decision.

    Nevertheless, when GOS first came out, it could only be run on PCs with GigaStudio installed. With GPO, you can run it on PC and MAC, and work as a standalone or plugin, and integrate with any sequencer supporting VST, DX, AudioUnits and ProTools. More freedom, more flexibility and more choices for the musician. Customizable virtual instruments is the future.

    Mach5 is a very good software sampler but has only very recently been available on PC, but it does not have the features necessary for GPO (although it has some features other samplers do not -like 5.1 surround support). We can certainly explore other formats but the library would have to be programmed natively and specifically for a particular format and the features of such a format would have to be compelling to do so.

    Gary Garritan

    Rodney: I think you may have taken Tom's humor the wrong way.

  9. #9

    Re: GPO & MOTU's Mach 5

    Gary once warned me never to bring up the subject of my pedal car. He told me it would only cause strife and misunderstanding. Did I listen? Obviously not. I just went ahead, against all sage and sane advice, and proceeded to write about it anyway. Personally, I agree with R. Glenn that Gary should recognize this as an unforgivable breach of ethics and immediately dismiss me. Any programmer who starts freely throwing analogies around deserves a severe reprimand but when the analogy involves the forbidden subject of pedal cars, well . . . I think the punishment should be meted out without mercy. We can all learn from this lesson: Pedal cars and sample libraries do not mix and can only result in unhappy customers. If you don’t hear from me again you’ll know why, and I only have myself to blame!


    Note from the moderators: We’ve tried our best to curb Tom’s irritating dry sense of humor and impress upon him the gravity and seriousness of the sample business but his only reaction after our carefully reasoned lecture was to bark like a dog. It sounded like a small terrier, if we’re not mistaken.

  10. #10

    Re: GPO & MOTU's Mach 5

    This is amazing.

    I get sarcastic and patronizing remarks from someone associated with a product...and I (and being a customer at that) am expected to explain and defend myself? Lol.

    What planet is this?


    It is not me who should have to prove whats wrong with the Kontakt player...what should be proved is what is wrong with other samplers besides the Kontakt player. If you know the first thing about sampling and samplers...you know perfectly well that you can do exactly the same thing in other samplers as you can using the Kontakt player....you just go about it in a different way.

    Regardless of what is said...there is still no reason for the samples to be encrypted and there is practically nothing that says they should only be used in Kontakt and no other sampler.


    The one who is clearly off base here is Tom and also you for claiming that I am. I don't know what concept you have of professionalism, but I can tell you that this is not it. What do you think this means:

    "I once had a pedal car that wouldn’t float. I’ll never forgive them for that. They tried to explain to me that it was never intended to float. Excuses, excuses."

    Yes I have studied the programming in this library and as far as I can tell there is nothing that cannot be achieved (by effect) with other samplers. If you don't know this then I suggest that you study this closer. What if this programming is not in the other libraries? So? This does not prove by any means that any one person could not achive the same thing using another platform.

    Finally...if you had read my post properly you would notice that I haven't mentioned Mach 5 at all. Also...you are completely wrong when saying that I'm the only one voicing this opinion. Well...I'm not the one who started this thread so that means that there are at least 2 of us...and I know there are many more, people who probably know just as much about programming libraries as anyone who has posted here so far.


    Nice. Even more sarcastic remarks. You defending a person of Tom's status making rude remarks like the ones he made towards me (by making your own similar ones), just shows how far it has gone. Thank's.


    Although I can see your reasons for going for what you did in terms of Kontakt player etc...it still doesn't automatically rule out everything else as being a workable solution. Your solution is your solution and it isn't the only one. I am obviously not the first (nor will I probably be the last) who have expressed concerns about the encryption. Also the whole concept of Tom's programming being "untouchable" and "perfect" is very rigid not to say unhealthy. Seems everyone assumes that no one else can do what he did and can't even think otherwise for a second.

    Regarding his remarks...well if it is his "humor" to ridicule customers then you should maybe send him off to a customer relations course or something where he can learn proper conduct. Even a 10 year old can tell that sarcasm has no place in these situations. No matter how strange a view might seem to you...you should always take your customers seriously.

    Btw...what ever happended to "the customer is always right" policy that you brought up in a thread? You say I take it the wrong way instead of realizing that it was Tom who put it the wrong way. In my experience (and I've had lots of experience dealing with customer relations) it's how the customer perceives it that counts. If there is a problem...you always start by looking for the source of the problem at your own end before looking to blame the customer for it.

    Anyways...all I hear is excuses and no apology in sight. Like I said, this isn't the first time this happened.


    That's even greater...not only do you not apologize but you continue with your sarcastic and ironic remarks. Or do you claim they are not? You apparently have no clue about what it means to be professional and representative...and to act accordingly.

    If you don't hear from me again then you'll know why.

    It's become very apparent to me that users on this forum are not supposed to express their opinions no matter how true and accurate. Developers and their associates on the other hand can apparently get away with anything...even things that in the real world would be grounds for serious reprimands.

    Bottom line...if you call yourself a pro and have to do with customers...then you should act like one and treat them accordingly.

    An honest apology would be in place and the only professional thing to do in a situation like this...but I can't say I expect to get one (as I haven't so far despite many chances given). Last time Tom made these remarks about me he brought up Alice in wonderland (more or less insinuating that my views are nothing but nuts).

    Yeah...I guess it's easy to speak about the rabbit hole when you're watching it from the inside...isn't it?

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