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Topic: Strings 'attack' control in Finale

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  1. #1

    Strings 'attack' control in Finale

    Finally I seem to be making progress using GPO with Finale but now I seem to have come to a standstill. Please can someone help me over this last final hurdle?

    When playing my score the sounds are fantastic .. BUT .. the strings (in particular) have this kind of 'sweep' up to the note effect. I think someone described it like they were playing 'Barber' continuously. It's the effect of drawing the bow slowly at first then speading up .. like a fraction of a second before the note is fully sounding. Sounds a bit like 'wah wah' effect. Someone else posted on this but I can't find his post right now. I'm not sure if this is 'attack' or 'delay' or whatever. I'm not even sure if this is 'Finale's' fault or if it's cast into the GPO samples.

    I have tried changing the MIDI controllers with no luck. This effect really prevents Finale users from working seriously with GPO as it sounds rather ridiculous. There must be a way to control this .. there has to be but I've tried everything!

    Although 'Overture' is good, it's not for me and I am seeking a 'Finale' solution. Are there any 'Finale' users or Garritan techies here who know how to remove this effect. As I said, I'm not sure if this is Finale's' fault or Garritan's. I'm also mailing Finale as they do have Garritan support feature in their 'Playback' control

    Can anyone help please as I've come so far with this and I love the high quality of the samples .. seems I'm so near yet so far and it's tantalisingly just out of reach.

    Once I'm on my way with this thing I would certainly try to support other Finale users here in the forums.

    Thanks.
    Michael
    Patience is a virtue, sensitivity is a gift

  2. #2

    Re: Strings 'attack' control in Finale

    Unfortunately I don't yet have GPO. But do you have the ability to play directly into GPO via a keyboard? And can you control the mod wheel, key velocity, and volume controllers when you do this? You can make any combination of those that you need in Finale, so if you can figure out what needs to happen by playing directly with your keyboard into GPO, you should be able to reproduce the effect in Finale.

    From following this board I've learned that the GPO strings do tend to have slow attacks. I believe some people may have worked around this by layering the instruments (maybe solo with section?). Others may have made up for the delay by pushing the starts of the notes forward. In Finale, you could do that with the MIDI Tool to the entire piece at once.

  3. #3

    Re: Strings 'attack' control in Finale

    Hi Michael, instead of using the lush violin section, try using the SUS+SHORT section, this way, the gradual attack that you are referring to will not be a problem when playing notes that are too short to "come up to volume", usually this wah wah attack sound is not a problem during Legato playing, especially if you have a sequencer where you can edit the notes so that each note lingers into the beginning of each following note. That's what I do most of the time. I know exactly what you are talking about though. I sure hope you like the results.
    DPDan

  4. #4

    Re: Strings 'attack' control in Finale

    Hello astrt4 and DPDAN,

    Thanks very much for your replies. I have tried just about everything but I believe I have found the solution. 'Garritan Orchestral Strings' .. an expensive solution but a solution nonetheless.

    I found that it is definitely not Finale .. I tried 'Overture' and 'Sibelius' and GPO strings sounded exactly the same! My apologies to my old friend 'Finale'

    Now I need to find out if 'Garritan Orchestral Strings' integrates seamlessly into GPO and if both can still be used through Finale.

    Hmmmm .. wonder if Gary included these 'wah wah' strings in GPO deliberately to make us string boffins buy GOS ....
    Michael
    Patience is a virtue, sensitivity is a gift

  5. #5
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    Re: Strings 'attack' control in Finale

    Michael,

    The GPO update is in beta testing right now, but I understand it should be released soon. (hopefully) Before purchasing another library, you might want to wait and see if the update resolves this issue for you.

    Jeff

  6. #6

    Re: Strings 'attack' control in Finale

    Quote Originally Posted by Michael_uk
    Now I need to find out if 'Garritan Orchestral Strings' integrates seamlessly into GPO and if both can still be used through Finale.

    Hmmmm .. wonder if Gary included these 'wah wah' strings in GPO deliberately to make us string boffins buy GOS ....
    Michael, GOS requires a totally different "player" like GIGA STUDIO.
    Listen to some of the demos on http://www.garritan.com and see if their strings sound like this. Purchasing GOS gives a bazzillion different articulations and is an amazing product, but I'm not sure it is a practical solution until you hear some of the demos. As far as I know, GOS was created before GPO so .....no, Gary wouldn't do that.


    DPDan

  7. #7

    Re: Strings 'attack' control in Finale

    Thanks Jeff and DPDAN for your input.

    I didn't realise that an update was imminent. I have read many posts on the same issue of the strings in GPO. Just to clarify this. The sounds are good, no problem there, it's about the 'sweeping up' to the notes .. the 'wah wah' effect as I would describe it which, from my trials, seem to be cast into the sampled sound. I hope that this is resolved in the update.

    I did listen to the GOS tutorial and listened to the samples and there's a huge selection of strings effects and they didn't seem to suffer the problems of the strings in GPO. I am not seeking the same facilities of GOS for GPO as I believe most of the usual string effects such as staccato and martele can be achieved using articulations in notation progs.

    As I stated in another post, I have been with Garritan Personal Orchestra for less than a week after being introduced by my UK supplier of Finale. In that short time I have become a huge fan of GPO and want to work with it and to support wherever I am able to. The sounds are remarkable, far better than anything I have used although I have to say that at the moment with the strings issue GPO cannot be taken seriously. The strings are the backbone of the orchestra and in every score I have tried, using 'Overture', 'Sibelius' and 'Finale', it sounds ridiculous. At first I blamed myself, then blamed Finale .. and I readily accept it may well still be me although this issue is documented by many other users of GPO who have posted in these forums.

    It is not my intention to start flaming here and I earnestly hope that my post does not draw any flaming. As I said, I am a supporter of Garritan String Orchestra .. I really am and I want to be able to come back and support others and to spread the gospel of GPO .. even try to persuade Gary to port GPO for Linux .. more on this one later.

    I see that Gary does come into forums from time to time. If you read this Gary, I apologise for my reference to your motives and I thank DPDAN for pointing out that you would not do this. I would offer my support and encouragement and hope that I shall be back here after the update sheepishly and humbly singing the praises of the strings in GPO.

    Good luck with it all and thanks again.
    Michael
    Patience is a virtue, sensitivity is a gift

  8. #8
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    Re: Strings 'attack' control in Finale

    Michael,

    Make sure you experiment with different velocity settings. While GPO uses modulation control in the strings, woodwinds and brass for volume and timbre changes, velocity has an effect on the attack of the samples. Maybe just setting the base key velocity in Finale to a higher setting will help.

    Good luck,
    Jeff

  9. #9

    Re: Strings 'attack' control in Finale

    Hello again Jeff,

    Thanks for your suggestion. This has made a big difference and things sound far better.

    After a little experimention with your sugggestion, I created a 'legato' text expression and assigned it to the velocity controller. With some trialling I found a setting that works for me.

    Now I feel that I can really get underway with 'Personal Orchestra' and work 'seriously' with it. I am sure that the forthcoming update will make it even better.

    Thanks again .. great forums and great support
    Michael
    Patience is a virtue, sensitivity is a gift

  10. #10

    Re: Strings 'attack' control in Finale

    Hi Michael,
    Another thing to make sure you try is using sustain pedal messages (CC64). Sustain in GPO ordinarily activates legato playing. So the way to do this would be - have sustain off before begining a phrase, and then right after the first note begins playing send a sustain on (CC64 with a value of 127 will do fine) message. Once the phrase is over send a sustain off message (CC64 with value 0 works). Rinse and repeat

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