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Topic: To all users of SAM Brass

  1. #1

    To all users of SAM Brass

    Hi all,
    I wasn't quite sure which forum to post this to, but was advised that this was the right one, so here we go...

    I currently own the SAM Trio bundle, and love it. The sound is great, the mic settings are wonderful, all in all, an awesome product...

    I am wondering how I can achieve a sharper, clearer staccato passage? Let me post some of the cues I am working on...

    1.) Fanfare: www.kuklamusic.com/fanfare.mp3

    Notice how the triplet figure is muddled and unclear? This may be due to the reverb I have on it, but I am wondering, is there a way to make it sharper? Which sample would you use? (The trombones have a great staccatissimo sample that works well)

    2.) Elfman: www.kuklamusic.com/elfman.mp3
    (I call it Elfman because, even though I was thinking something completely different, it still sounds batmanish...)

    The trumpets here are groups of four 16th notes that sometimes sound as if they were simply a wash of a chord. Again, it might be due to the verb, but I am using one of the Dual Staccatos samples. What could I use here?

    Also, what would you use for double-tonguing passages and such?

    Thanks very much!


  2. #2

    Re: To all users of SAM Brass

    Thanks for replying, Sharmy.

    Yeah, for the dual staccs in the 2nd cue, I am using the S version. I have to admit, I'm not sure what the S and L stand for... I assume they stand for Short and Long...

    I dont quite understand how to use the phrases other than for the specific patterns they are. I didnt think you could change any of that. What do you mean when you say retrigger?

    My short motif is a sampled eighth-note triplet followed by another quarter note on every key. How can I break the pattern?


    Steven J. Kukla

  3. #3

    Re: To all users of SAM Brass

    I think I'm not doing a good job of explaining what I want to happen, which is my fault, so I apologize...

    I'm basically wanting to know which patches in the library offer the shortest tonguing of individual notes. The staccato phrases and playing styles seem to offer pre-programmed "passages" which are nice, but the only individual notes I see are the staccatos and short motif patches. Still, if you write in, say, a 16th note triplet-8th note figure at quarter equals 150, it's not crisp. I'm wondering if that's just the way the ball bounces, or if there's a way to write crisp, individual double-tonguing motifs without using the ones that are pre-programmed?

    Does anyone have examples of these types of passages in some music that they've done which could be posted for me to hear? I think I may be over-analyzing this... things often seem to be much more simple than I make them.


    Steven J. Kukla

  4. #4

    Re: To all users of SAM Brass

    Ah, yes, I see now. Thanks for clarifying. I feel....rather dense, but I'm sure I'll come to understand this.

    Do you have any clips that have really short, unique trumpet lines, or just short lines in general? I'd like to hear how you (and by you, I mean anyone who feels like answering of course,) manipulate the samples to create these lines.

    I've done a bit of experimenting and found that Phrase D (the one with repeating 16th notes), is the most condusive to creating custom double-tongued passages. Although, understandably the action sounds more like the machine-gun effect. Still, it works very well. Thanks for the encouragement, Sharmy, and again, if you have any examples of your trumpet work, I'd love to hear them.
    Steven J. Kukla

  5. #5

    Re: To all users of SAM Brass

    Quote Originally Posted by Sharmy
    hehe, it deserves a topic itself.... ...great

  6. #6
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2002
    New York City

    Re: To all users of SAM Brass

    Quote Originally Posted by Sharmy
    VERY nice Sharmy.

  7. #7

    Re: To all users of SAM Brass

    That helps a lot, thank you. I'm assuming you did that work all with SAM...and also that you did it by experimenting as you said. I just haven't experimented enough with individual instruments yet. The trumps in that piece are in the background; it would be interesting to see if it would be possible to create a line which could be a solo section line....sorta like the Ravel Nocturnes... something for me to try, I guess.

    I also have a question for you specifically: I enjoyed your demo work with VSL's Woodwind Ensembles. I am wondering: in the very beginning of Spud's Dissonance, there is a very convincing oboe solo line that sounds more like a solo patch than the ensembles. May I ask what that was and what winds you prefer to use in your work?
    Steven J. Kukla

  8. #8

    Re: To all users of SAM Brass

    I find that whenever I need really tight staccatissimo patches, I turn to the Solo Sessions instead of the regular ensemble patches. The Cimbasso stacatissimo ff samples are very, very, tight, and are perfectly capable of adding sufficient accent to the not-so-tight staccatos that some of the other instruments might have. Also, as much as I love the SAM Trombone staccato patches, I find the fortissimo-level playing to be too forceful and thick to be very realistic in quick repetitions, since a player would naturally have to conserve their breath a bit more for repeated playing. The regular forte staccato patches from the Solo Sessions trombones are IMO at the perfect volume for tight staccato repetitions.

    There's another option, too. It would take painstaking efforts and a lot of time to do this, but if you spliced apart the notes used in the triplet-phrases from the SAM instruments that have them, and then somehow managed to blend them with the tails from the regular stacattos, you could get some VERY nice sounding double/triple-tounging. I've had very good results with this, but I wasn't patient enough to do it for more than a couple of notes. The good news is that on few phrases I did splice apart, I got the closest to the true rapid-fire trumpets I've ever heard any samples go.

  9. #9

    Re: To all users of SAM Brass

    Perhaps I´m the only one who did this, or you´ve already tried this or this is way too easy, but... the first time I played the trumpets, I immediately found the staccatos too slow for fast passages, even in the "fast playing"-patch, so I shortened the release-time of the patch and made myself a "very fast-playing"-patch, that I actually use most of the time.

    By the way... the second thing I made was to program a filter in Kompakt over the trumpets, so they dampen til end, cause in my opinion, no trumpet player ( and I´m one of them, though not very good ) ever plays one note in ff til the end. It sounds not so fine, though it is possible.

    With this patch, I make about 90 % of my trumpet-work and it works most of the time

  10. #10

    Re: To all users of SAM Brass

    VERY nice Craig - man you are psycho
    Rob Elliott Music

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