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Topic: A palm tree is on fire in Baghdad

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  1. #1

    A palm tree is on fire in Baghdad

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    How many people died as a result of beheadings in the US in 2004?

    I count 2 alone in the bay area of S.F.

    How many people died of gunshots, stabbings, beatings in the U.S. in 2004? I TRIPLE DOG DARE ANYONE HERE TO POST THOSE NUMBES - If you don't I WILL.

    By the way there should be news reports before the election of some ex- official, or a new nameless grunt EVERY HOUR (instead of every day) screaming:

    There are/were never any WMD's and break into all our favorite TV shows EVERY HOUR upon EVERY HOUR! Doing it everyday doesn't make us numb enough to the speculation 1.5 years into the war.

    "One doth protest too much, I think"

    "LOOK WOLF THERE'S A FIRE!!!! LOOK WOLF THERE'S A GUN SHOT QUUUUUUAAAAAAAAGGGGGGGGGGG......."

    Ahhh where's Peter Arnet when we need him to fake...er I mean liven things up? It's not like we're in a war or anything.

  2. #2

    Re: A palm tree is on fire in Baghdad

    Mission accomplished?

    -JF

  3. #3

    Wink Re: A palm tree is on fire in Baghdad

    Yes THOSE an that aircraft carrier DID indeed accomplish their mission, as the banner clearly stated on the flight deck, and in case you all didn't know was never actually SAID by Bush.

    But now you do.

  4. #4

    Re: A palm tree is on fire in Baghdad

    They delay an aircraft carrier from returning to port by a full day, turn it around so the cameras won't show San Diego in the background, bring the news media and all their gear to the ship, stage a fly-in and prepare a speech in which the main thrust is that we've accomplished our objectives. What? They didn't notice the banner?

    If the banner had said "Kucinich for President" they would have ripped it down and burned it. As it was, it said "Mission Accomplished". Not only did they leave it up, it was in the frame.

    This was a bigger media stunt than even the plastic turkey incident. Probably the biggest of Bush's term.

    But back to your original post. Just look at all of the things that Bush has accomplished.

    -JF

  5. #5

    Re: A palm tree is on fire in Baghdad

    More on Bush's accomplishments...

    This is an e-mail sent from Farnaz Fassihi, a Wall Street Journal reporter, to friends. It was not intended for publication, but apparently one of his friends thought that this candor was too important not to share.

    Being a foreign correspondent in Baghdad these days is like being under virtual house arrest. Forget about the reasons that lured me to this job: a chance to see the world, explore the exotic, meet new people in far away lands, discover their ways and tell stories that could make a difference.

    Little by little, day-by-day, being based in Iraq has defied all those reasons. I am house bound. I leave when I have a very good reason to and a scheduled interview. I avoid going to people's homes and never walk in the streets. I can't go grocery shopping any more, can't eat in restaurants, can't strike a conversation with strangers, can't look for stories, can't drive in any thing but a full armored car, can't go to scenes of breaking news stories, can't be stuck in traffic, can't speak English outside, can't take a road trip, can't say I'm an American, can't linger at checkpoints, can't be curious about what people are saying, doing, feeling. And can't and can't. There has been one too many close calls, including a car bomb so near our house that it blew out all the windows. So now my most pressing concern every day is not to write a kick-~~~ story but to stay alive and make sure our Iraqi employees stay alive. In Baghdad I am a security personnel first, a reporter second.

    It's hard to pinpoint when the 'turning point' exactly began. Was it April when the Fallujah fell out of the grasp of the Americans? Was it when Moqtada and Jish Mahdi declared war on the U.S. military? Was it when Sadr City, home to ten percent of Iraq's population, became a nightly battlefield for the Americans? Or was it when the insurgency began spreading from isolated pockets in the Sunni triangle to include most of Iraq? Despite President Bush's rosy assessments, Iraq remains a disaster. If under Saddam it was a 'potential' threat, under the Americans it has been transformed to 'imminent and active threat,' a foreign policy failure bound to haunt the United States for decades to come.

    Iraqis like to call this mess 'the situation.' When asked 'how are thing?' they reply: 'the situation is very bad."

    What they mean by situation is this: the Iraqi government doesn't control most Iraqi cities, there are several car bombs going off each day around the country killing and injuring scores of innocent people, the country's roads are becoming impassable and littered by hundreds of landmines and explosive devices aimed to kill American soldiers, there are assassinations, kidnappings and beheadings. The situation, basically, means a raging barbaric guerilla war. In four days, 110 people died and over 300 got injured in Baghdad alone. The numbers are so shocking that the ministry of health -- which was attempting an exercise of public transparency by releasing the numbers -- has now stopped disclosing them.

    Insurgents now attack Americans 87 times a day.

    A friend drove thru the Shiite slum of Sadr City yesterday. He said young men were openly placing improvised explosive devices into the ground. They melt a shallow hole into the asphalt, dig the explosive, cover it with dirt and put an old tire or plastic can over it to signal to the locals this is booby-trapped. He said on the main roads of Sadr City, there were a dozen landmines per every ten yards. His car snaked and swirled to avoid driving over them. Behind the walls sits an angry Iraqi ready to detonate them as soon as an American convoy gets near. This is in Shiite land, the population that was supposed to love America for liberating Iraq.

    For journalists the significant turning point came with the wave of abduction and kidnappings. Only two weeks ago we felt safe around Baghdad because foreigners were being abducted on the roads and highways between towns. Then came a frantic phone call from a journalist female friend at 11 p.m. telling me two Italian women had been abducted from their homes in broad daylight. Then the two Americans, who got beheaded this week and the Brit, were abducted from their homes in a residential neighborhood. They were supplying the entire block with round the clock electricity from their generator to win friends. The abductors grabbed one of them at 6 a.m. when he came out to switch on the generator; his beheaded body was thrown back near the neighborhoods.

    The insurgency, we are told, is rampant with no signs of calming down. If any thing, it is growing stronger, organized and more sophisticated every day. The various elements within it-baathists, criminals, nationalists and Al Qaeda-are cooperating and coordinating.

    I went to an emergency meeting for foreign correspondents with the military and embassy to discuss the kidnappings. We were somberly told our fate would largely depend on where we were in the kidnapping chain once it was determined we were missing. Here is how it goes: criminal gangs grab you and sell you up to Baathists in Fallujah, who will in turn sell you to Al Qaeda. In turn, cash and weapons flow the other way from Al Qaeda to the Baathisst to the criminals. My friend Georges, the French journalist snatched on the road to Najaf, has been missing for a month with no word on release or whether he is still alive.

    America's last hope for a quick exit? The Iraqi police and National Guard units we are spending billions of dollars to train. The cops are being murdered by the dozens every day-over 700 to date -- and the insurgents are infiltrating their ranks. The problem is so serious that the U.S. military has allocated $6 million dollars to buy out 30,000 cops they just trained to get rid of them quietly.

    As for reconstruction: firstly it's so unsafe for foreigners to operate that almost all projects have come to a halt. After two years, of the $18 billion Congress appropriated for Iraq reconstruction only about $1 billion or so has been spent and a chuck has now been reallocated for improving security, a sign of just how bad things are going here.

    Oil dreams? Insurgents disrupt oil flow routinely as a result of sabotage and oil prices have hit record high of $49 a barrel. Who did this war exactly benefit? Was it worth it? Are we safer because Saddam is holed up and Al Qaeda is running around in Iraq?

    Iraqis say that thanks to America they got freedom in exchange for insecurity. Guess what? They say they'd take security over freedom any day, even if it means having a dictator ruler.

    I heard an educated Iraqi say today that if Saddam Hussein were allowed to run for elections he would get the majority of the vote. This is truly sad.

    Then I went to see an Iraqi scholar this week to talk to him about elections here. He has been trying to educate the public on the importance of voting. He said, "President Bush wanted to turn Iraq into a democracy that would be an example for the Middle East. Forget about democracy, forget about being a model for the region, we have to salvage Iraq before all is lost."

    One could argue that Iraq is already lost beyond salvation. For those of us on the ground it's hard to imagine what if any thing could salvage it from its violent downward spiral. The genie of terrorism, chaos and mayhem has been unleashed onto this country as a result of American mistakes and it can't be put back into a bottle.

    The Iraqi government is talking about having elections in three months while half of the country remains a 'no go zone'-out of the hands of the government and the Americans and out of reach of journalists. In the other half, the disenchanted population is too terrified to show up at polling stations. The Sunnis have already said they'd boycott elections, leaving the stage open for polarized government of Kurds and Shiites that will not be deemed as legitimate and will most certainly lead to civil war.

    I asked a 28-year-old engineer if he and his family would participate in the Iraqi elections since it was the first time Iraqis could to some degree elect a leadership. His response summed it all: "Go and vote and risk being blown into pieces or followed by the insurgents and murdered for cooperating with the Americans? For what? To practice democracy? Are you joking?"

    Farnaz Fassihi, a Wall Street Journal reporter sent this report as an e-mail to friends.

  6. #6

    Re: A palm tree is on fire in Baghdad

    Quote Originally Posted by Think_About_It
    How many people died as a result of beheadings in the US in 2004?

    I count 2 alone in the bay area of S.F.

    How many people died of gunshots, stabbings, beatings in the U.S. in 2004? I TRIPLE DOG DARE ANYONE HERE TO POST THOSE NUMBES - If you don't I WILL.
    What's your point That Americans are stupid enough to shoot, stab and (if you say so...?) behead each other in large numbers? That they do it as much as in Iraq? Hey. Post the numbers, I can't find them. Are they more or less? I'd love to know. I do know if I had to choose to live in Iraq or the USA I'd find it about as easy as choosing to have with my mum or my dog.
    I know for sure the numbers of Canadians or English or Europeans who have been shot stabbed or beheaded in the last year is a good deal lower. MAybe you could post these numbers too. Think about it. Indeed.

  7. #7

    Re: A palm tree is on fire in Baghdad

    Quote Originally Posted by Think_About_It
    Ahhh where's Peter Arnet when we need him to fake...er I mean liven things up?
    We've got Bush and Cheney doing it for him.

  8. #8

    Re: A palm tree is on fire in Baghdad

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Palomar
    What's your point That Americans are stupid enough to shoot, stab and (if you say so...?) behead each other in large numbers? That they do it as much as in Iraq? Hey. Post the numbers, I can't find them. Are they more or less? I'd love to know.
    To be fair, shouldn't he just post the numbers for California? Iraq isn't nearly the size of the U.S.

  9. #9

    Re: A palm tree is on fire in Baghdad

    Arnet was fired a long time ago, like Blair from the New York times for MAKING UP THE NEWS. Dan Rather's still on the scene makin' up fiction and then there's Jabba the Moore, the looooong and endless list winds on down to a tie for last between Opera and Jerry Springer.

    Anyway the numbers for California alone:

    1,842 killings in 2002 (latest numbers lagging indicator).

    As for the rest and my point read on. You're smart - YOU figure it out.

    Nation________________Year___Homicide_Rate
    _______________________________per_100,000
    ________________________________population
    __________________________________________
    South_Africa__________1995___________75.30
    Colombia______________1996___________64.60
    Colombia______________2000___________59.__
    Latin_America_________1994___________28.4
    Estonia_______________1994___________28.21
    Brazil________________2002___________27.__
    Brazil________________1993___________19.04
    Mexico________________1994___________17.58
    Philippines___________1996___________16.20
    Taiwan________________1996____________8.12
    N._Ireland____________1994____________6.09
    United_States_________2000____________6.1_
    Argentina_____________1994____________4.51
    Hungary_______________1994____________3.53
    Finland_______________1994____________3.24
    Portugal______________1994____________2.98
    Mauritius_____________1993____________2.35
    Israel________________1993____________2.32
    Scotland______________1994____________2.24
    Canada________________1996____________2.1_
    Slovenia______________1994____________2.01
    Australia_____________1994____________1.86
    Singapore_____________1994____________1.71
    France________________1998____________1.64
    South_Korea___________1994____________1.62
    Italy_________________1998____________1.54
    Australia_____________1998____________1.5_
    New_Zealand___________1993____________1.47
    Belgium_______________1990____________1.41
    England_and_Wales_____1998____________1.30
    Sweden________________1993____________1.30
    Denmark_______________1993____________1.21
    Germany_______________1998____________1.18
    Austria_______________1994____________1.17
    Greece________________1994____________1.14
    France________________1994____________1.12
    Netherlands___________1994____________1.11
    Switzerland___________1998____________1.06
    Kuwait________________1995____________1.01
    Norway________________1993____________0.97
    Spain_________________1993____________0.95
    Japan_________________1994____________0.62
    Ireland_______________1991____________0.62

    This is how the WORLD HEADLINE NEWS would read if done by the left:

    THE WORLD IS QUAAAAAAAAAAAAAGMIRE!!! WE'RE ALL GONNA DIE!

  10. #10

    Re: A palm tree is on fire in Baghdad

    Quote Originally Posted by Think_About_It
    Arnet was fired a long time ago, like Blair from the New York times for MAKING UP THE NEWS. Dan Rather's still on the scene makin' up fiction and then there's Jabba the Moore, the looooong and endless list winds on down to a tie for last between Opera and Jerry Springer.
    [/b]
    Man, you are one angry guy. So what I'm getting from this thread is that you basically don't give a damn about the dead and wounded soldiers in Iraq. And I don't dare mention the thousands of dead and wounded women and children.

    Because, hey, things could be worse, right?

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