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Topic: Mixing EWQLSO Gold with Samples from other Libraries

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  1. #1

    Mixing EWQLSO Gold with Samples from other Libraries

    Here is an issue I have been grappling with: say I would like to mix EWQLSO Gold together with samples with other libraries, how do I go about it? The issue for me is that Gold samples are recorded in their own space (the famous "hall" yadayadayda....) and therefore have their own ambience and reverb tails, etc. Say you would like to insert a violin solo using KHSS or some other "dry" sample with no reverb. You can add reverb to the KHSS but how do you go about matching the reverb to make it sound natural. By ear?

    Another issue arises if you want to process Gold samples with say, an eq plugin (not the Kompakt/Kontakt eq but a standalone plugin) which you would normally place before the reverb...

    How do you deal with this?

    Any suggestions would be appreciated

    cheers

    gspin

  2. #2

    Re: Mixing EWQLSO Gold with Samples from other Libraries

    The ear is able to integrate different spaces in recordings very well.

    Just add a hall reverb to the violin. Chances are it'll blend right in, but the reverb parameters to focus on when you're blending sounds are decay (of course) and whatever control they give you over brightness.

    Are you having problems, or is this a theoretical question? I've found that you can combine libraries no problem.

  3. #3

    Re: Mixing EWQLSO Gold with Samples from other Libraries

    I agree....many "regular" recordings use different reverbs without issue. Now that there are some great convolution reverb algorithms out there, it's even easier.

    If you have a sequencer, assign you Gold patches to a separate bus from the other libraries and/or assign all dry patches to a master bus that will send to a convolution program or reverb plug-in.
    I remain solely responsible for the content of my messages, and agree to indemnify and hold harmless northern sound source, and their agents with respect to any claim based upon transmission of my message(s). Rock on.

  4. #4

    Re: Mixing EWQLSO Gold with Samples from other Libraries

    Quote Originally Posted by Nick Batzdorf
    The ear is able to integrate different spaces in recordings very well.

    Just add a hall reverb to the violin. Chances are it'll blend right in, but the reverb parameters to focus on when you're blending sounds are decay (of course) and whatever control they give you over brightness.

    Are you having problems, or is this a theoretical question? I've found that you can combine libraries no problem.
    Actually, with respect to the first issue, I just wanted to hear the opinion of the purists here (I mean that in a good way)... thanks

    How about the non-Kontakt plugin issue though (that I do have practical issues with....)

    best

    gspin

  5. #5

    Re: Mixing EWQLSO Gold with Samples from other Libraries

    I mix libs with Gold all the time. Nicks right in that the ear kind of gets fooled by the ambience of Gold - the other libs sound like they are there too.

    I mix LOP, G-Town and Sam brass with Gold on a regular basis for my projects.
    ---------------------------
    - SCA - Sound Studios -
    www.sca-soundstudios.com
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  6. #6

    Re: Mixing EWQLSO Gold with Samples from other Libraries

    Reverb is only one aspect when matching different libraries (though in many cases, it's rather easy to fool the ear with a standard hall preset or something similar). I've often found that correcting the stereo image and EQing is of equal importance when trying to achieve a plausible spatial placement. Narrowing the stereo width (especially when using "close-miked" samples like VSL or AO) and reducing the high and low frequency range adds to the impression of increased distance. The balance between early reflections, dry signal and reverb tail is also very important. When you are using dry samples, early reflections are essential, but reduce them or turn them off if you are using samples with hall ambience (because they already include early reflections).

    All in all, the best approach is to consider how a specific library has been recorded (far/close, ambient/dry, pre-panned or not, ...) and then trying to adjust the different involved factors (frequency content, stereo image, placement, early reflections and reverb tail) with this knowledge.

    Regarding EQing Gold - I think it makes very little audible difference whether you EQ before adding reverb or afterwards - the reverb tail will be affected in both cases (not in exactly the same way, but I think it would be very hard to hear the difference). In "real" orchestral recordings, the hall ambience is also affected when EQ is added. They also have close and far mics, though, so if you want total control, buy Platinum ;-)

    BTW, I've seldom found it necessary to EQ Gold, in most cases the problem was my orchestration, not the frequency content of the instruments. Actually, all my experiments with EQ have worsened the overall results...

  7. #7

    Re: Mixing EWQLSO Gold with Samples from other Libraries

    Wouldn't it be great if every orchestra library developer would include a starter pistol IR sample, recorded in a position similar to the instruments? It would be cool to duplicate the ambience of the original recording environment when using live instruments (I play a real classical guitar along with my libraries) and other samples.

  8. #8

    Post Re: Mixing EWQLSO Gold with Samples from other Libraries

    Quote Originally Posted by gspin
    Here is an issue I have been grappling with: say I would like to mix EWQLSO Gold together with samples with other libraries, how do I go about it? The issue for me is that Gold samples are recorded in their own space (the famous "hall" yadayadayda....) and therefore have their own ambience and reverb tails, etc. Say you would like to insert a violin solo using KHSS or some other "dry" sample with no reverb. You can add reverb to the KHSS but how do you go about matching the reverb to make it sound natural. By ear?

    Another issue arises if you want to process Gold samples with say, an eq plugin (not the Kompakt/Kontakt eq but a standalone plugin) which you would normally place before the reverb...

    How do you deal with this?

    Any suggestions would be appreciated

    cheers

    gspin
    Gspin,

    My experience when combining the QLSO Gold with other libraries such as the Sonic Implants Strings and Brass, VSL, ProjectSAM, LOP and others has been excellent. Once the correct balances between the instruments are there, I run my orchestra through a Lexicon PCM91, which despite the QLSO having it's own ambience, makes for a warm and lush combination of the various sample libraries.

    I wouldn't be too concerned with mixing the libraries... if anything, it will ultimately make for a better and more realistic sound when combined properly. In the end, if the orchestration is correct and the instrument balances and panning is correct, then you will achieve the sound you are striving for.

    Best,

    Kaveh

    www.kavehcohen.com

  9. #9

    Re: Mixing EWQLSO Gold with Samples from other Libraries

    Please don't interpret what I'm saying as, "Just go make some music and shut the heck up!" I'm very much into good-sounding audio.

    Orchestral recordings are always in the same space, but if you listen to any pop mix, you'll hear several reverbs, and its sounds prefectly natural. That's what I mean about the ear accepting multiple spaces.

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