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Topic: Is the Universe human?

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  1. #1

    Is the Universe human?

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    Is the Universe human?

    If Religion is man/womans attempt at understanding and forming a relationship with the infinite, than how is this understanding possible if the Universe is not human!. If this is the case, any outword manifeston of spirituality is only a human projection because no cognitive framework could possibly exist to explain something that is outside human cognition.

  2. #2

    Re: Is the Universe human?

    "Universe" is a straight-jacket term created by humankind to explain everything that occurs within infinity. Its basically an admission that our limited brains can't comprehend what is actually out there. Nothing can, except God who is perceived as being at once all embracing yet outside of the universe we exist in. Its a human concept but that does not suggest that if we were not here that it would cease to be. The fact that it embraces everything suggests that it exists regardless of wether we are here or not. If we no longer existed then the concept of "the universe" would not exist but whatever the thing is that we perceive and label as "the universe" would.

    Bear in mind that everything we are physically has existed for however long within the universe and so we are very much a product of the universe. That we perceive and rationalize that there is something greater than and beyond us means we accept we are part of the universe as we know it rather than it being absolutely (or simply just) human.

    Now, its 3.30am here and I shouldn't be thinking of these things when I've got a long day ahead and a Perlman concert to watch at the RFH tomorrow evening!.
    Trev Parks

  3. #3
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    Re: Is the Universe human?

    Quote Originally Posted by charles
    Is the Universe human?

    If Religion is man/womans attempt at understanding and forming a relationship with the infinite, than how is this understanding possible if the Universe is not human!. If this is the case, any outword manifeston of spirituality is only a human projection because no cognitive framework could possibly exist to explain something that is outside human cognition.
    If by universe you mean everything - which it seems that you do, - then by what evidence could you use to support the notion that it is human when the very nature of "human" is finite?

    Are you familiar with the work of J. Krishnamurti?

  4. #4

    Re: Is the Universe human?

    Quote Originally Posted by runamuck
    If by universe you mean everything - which it seems that you do, - then by what evidence could you use to support the notion that it is human when the very nature of "human" is finite?
    What prompted my reflection, actually, was your previous post on Christianity. In that post i stated that the instinct for survival overides our higher needs for spirituality. I was using the term in the sense of the infinite, yes, everything. The title of the post was just an opener, i personally do not believe that the universe is human, i personally believe all of life is part of the Universe and therefore has as much right to survive and express its being, and here is the paradox for me for to survive and express one's spirituality can be in contradiction, i mentioned the example of the mother , who may be in a situation were she has to determine whether, her child lives or her neighbours child lives, what criteria could she possibly use, but her instinct for survival. Religous projections might be comforting in situations where our physical needs for food and security are met, but what if these basics needs are absent?
    Basically i was placing the mothers predicament into the context of the Universe , and that the finite reason of humankind can only glimpse at the infinite and the universe, with this mere glimpse we try to project our cognitive framework on to others, and in most cases it ends up in disaster.


    Are you familiar with the work of J. Krishnamurti?
    yes, i am, many years ago, when i was totally disillusioned with Christianity or maybe disillusioned with Christians i was looking for ideas of spirituality outside what i had been used to

  5. #5

    Re: Is the Universe human?

    Quote Originally Posted by T Parks
    "Universe" is a straight-jacket term created by humankind to explain everything that occurs within infinity. Its basically an admission that our limited brains can't comprehend what is actually out there.
    yes, that is also the way i understand the term.

    Quote Originally Posted by T Parks
    Nothing can, except God who is perceived as being at once all embracing yet outside of the universe we exist in. Its a human concept but that does not suggest that if we were not here that it would cease to be.
    actually i have been playing around with the notion, that the concept of God is not even necessary, since the universe is out of our cognition, why even attempt the impossible? what i am saying is, the only need for God that i can see is to harmonise my need for a relationship with the infinite, so why do i need God to do that?, why cant i realize my inner spirituality without God, why cant i be a Spiritual Atheist !! Since my definition for Spirituality is simply a need for the inner being of humankind to find a relationship with the Universe, Does humankind need the notion of God to this?


    Quote Originally Posted by T Parks
    The fact that it embraces everything suggests that it exists regardless of wether we are here or not. If we no longer existed then the concept of "the universe" would not exist but whatever the thing is that we perceive and label as "the universe" would.
    i agree, i probably wasnt very clear, but i believe humankind is an expression of the Universe, we are not integral to the workings of the Universe, or perhaps not in our present stage of evolution, if we survive as a species and can unlock more secrets, such as the reasons for life and death, this would pose interesting philosophical questions

    Quote Originally Posted by T Parks
    Bear in mind that everything we are physically has existed for however long within the universe and so we are very much a product of the universe. That we perceive and rationalize that there is something greater than and beyond us means we accept we are part of the universe as we know it rather than it being absolutely (or simply just) human.
    yes as i was trying to say above, but what if we evolve beyond our present level of understanding, to a point were we could solve the problems of death etc, i am beginning to contradict myself, because if we solved the problem of death our relationship to the Universe would change drastically we would enter a different level of cognition.

  6. #6
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    Re: Is the Universe human?

    Quote Originally Posted by charles
    Since my definition for Spirituality is simply a need for the inner being of humankind to find a relationship with the Universe, Does humankind need the notion of God to this?
    It doesnt seem healthy to me that some need the notion of a god invented by man. I feel that that is one of humankinds greatest problems. The human mind is so limited and the Universe so utterly incomprehensible that we try and bottle it.

    I feel that what we need is a greater notion and acceptance of mystery.

    You might try playing around with not using the word 'sprituality' for a while.
    Since it has strong religeous underpinnings, one might misunderstand your use of it.

    Jim

  7. #7

    Re: Is the Universe human?

    Quote Originally Posted by runamuck
    It doesnt seem healthy to me that some need the notion of a god invented by man. I feel that that is one of humankinds greatest problems. The human mind is so limited and the Universe so utterly incomprehensible that we try and bottle it.

    I feel that what we need is a greater notion and acceptance of mystery.

    You might try playing around with not using the word 'sprituality' for a while.
    Since it has strong religeous underpinnings, one might misunderstand your use of it.

    Jim
    i agree, i like the way you stated it, but its a bit harder to get away from the word spirituality , but i also agree it can be confusing in the context that i use it.

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