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Topic: Has anyone tried GPO out on the new iMac G5?

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  1. #1

    Has anyone tried GPO out on the new iMac G5?

    I've been pondering a new system and best info I have as yet is that computers with similar specs(single 1.8 GHz processor) may be just borderline. I'm trying to erase all doubt before "leaping."

    I may attempt to give this a test run at the local Apple store, but it would require devoting an afternoon in the store installing Sibelius/GPO/GPO Studio, which I'm not sure is even practical.

    Thanks, great software and great forum

  2. #2

    Re: Has anyone tried GPO out on the new iMac G5?

    Quote Originally Posted by pgurnee
    I've been pondering a new system and best info I have as yet is that computers with similar specs(single 1.8 GHz processor) may be just borderline. I'm trying to erase all doubt before "leaping."

    I may attempt to give this a test run at the local Apple store, but it would require devoting an afternoon in the store installing Sibelius/GPO/GPO Studio, which I'm not sure is even practical.

    Thanks, great software and great forum

    I am not a specialist, but I was told recently by Tom Hopkins that the clock rate was very important as regards the efficiency of Kompakt sampler technology and that MACs had some problems to "compete" with PCs. I have a MAC G4, dual, 1.42 GHz and the clock rate is considered low. Better to have a faster speed. A 2.4 GHz on PC seems to be perfect! If possible, go for a faster clock rate. However with my system, I am able to load 6 instances of GPO in GPO Studio (with Ambiance) and run 43 instruments with tutti of 13 instruments sounding at the same time. Of course, I want more but this is objectively a lot considering I use all the KS instruments possible in my set-up.
    Hope it helps.

    Louis

  3. #3

    Re: Has anyone tried GPO out on the new iMac G5?

    Thanks Louis -

    Your system is able to run many more instruments than mine - and I wonder how much of that is owing purely to the difference in speed(mine is only 1GHz/1 gig ram), and how much does the dual processor part of it factor into things?

    Earlier I raised the question of whether dual processors were actually helpful and wasn't exactly convinced one way or the other.

    I recently saw a laptop(Gary Garritan's) with 3Ghz processor running quite nicely a large orchestration without a hiccup.

    Thanks again

  4. #4
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    Re: Has anyone tried GPO out on the new iMac G5?

    I am in the midst of trying to test IMac G5, GPO and Logic 7. So far so good with 1 Gig ram -- up to 24 instruments. Waiting for another 1 gig chip to arrive to add more.

    GC

  5. #5

    Re: Has anyone tried GPO out on the new iMac G5?

    Quote Originally Posted by chmara
    I am in the midst of trying to test IMac G5, GPO and Logic 7. So far so good with 1 Gig ram -- up to 24 instruments. Waiting for another 1 gig chip to arrive to add more.

    GC
    Thanks chmara

    That sounds promising and is exactly what I was hoping to hear, as I have one on order and was having my doubts.

    Is your machine the 1.6 or 1.8 GHz version? 24 instruments seems like a lot for 1 gigabyte of ram. At present I'm able to have about 12 instruments going on a G4 laptop/1GHz/1 gig ram. The quality of the sounds is spectacular. Much beyond that, though, and it crumps.

    I tried all these fixes(lower sample rate etc) but only brought misery upon myself and in the end was happier with fewer voices and the best quality I could have imagined. (And as a bonus it's gotten me more interested in working with smaller ensemble pieces.)

    It seems like the processor speed is quite an important factor in the equation. At a recent demo Gary Garritan said as much, but there seems to be a threshhold of necessary processor speed/ram that the iMac G5 seems to meet. It will be good information for anyone pondering the purchase of a new Mac, given the difference in cost between single and dual machines.

    Thanks again and good luck to you

  6. #6

    Re: Has anyone tried GPO out on the new iMac G5?

    Quote Originally Posted by pgurnee
    Thanks chmara

    That sounds promising and is exactly what I was hoping to hear, as I have one on order and was having my doubts.

    Is your machine the 1.6 or 1.8 GHz version? 24 instruments seems like a lot for 1 gigabyte of ram. At present I'm able to have about 12 instruments going on a G4 laptop/1GHz/1 gig ram. The quality of the sounds is spectacular. Much beyond that, though, and it crumps.

    I tried all these fixes(lower sample rate etc) but only brought misery upon myself and in the end was happier with fewer voices and the best quality I could have imagined. (And as a bonus it's gotten me more interested in working with smaller ensemble pieces.)

    It seems like the processor speed is quite an important factor in the equation. At a recent demo Gary Garritan said as much, but there seems to be a threshhold of necessary processor speed/ram that the iMac G5 seems to meet. It will be good information for anyone pondering the purchase of a new Mac, given the difference in cost between single and dual machines.

    Thanks again and good luck to you
    I have a Mac G5 which I use with GOP and have no trouble so far loading voices (have loaded up to 16 voices into Digital Performer 4.12). I do, however have a problem trying to get the "change velocity" command in DP to affect the volume of the string, brass or wind ensembles. Again , I say ensembles (for example: vln 1 lush) because the command does work with all solo instruments as well as the keyboards and percussion. I have asked several people at GOP, Native Instruments and MOTU about this, but so far no one has the answer. I find the inability to use the "change velocity" command to affect the volume of the ensembles a serious drawback in using GOP, which otherwise is very impressive. Can anyone shed some light? Thx OJ

  7. #7

    Re: Has anyone tried GPO out on the new iMac G5?

    orijames,

    If I’m not misinterpreting your description it sounds like you may have misunderstood one of the basic principles of the library. GPO is not like other libraries in its use of velocity data for most of its instruments (which is why you can’t just use the library, you must read the documentation thoroughly).

    Briefly, there are two types of instruments in GPO: Expressive and Percussive. Percussive instruments, like piano, string pizz, and most percussion, use the standard velocity = volume model. On the other hand, Expressive instruments use Mod Wheel (cc#1) = volume/timbre. Velocity does not control volume, it controls attack strength. Any differences you heard by manipulating velocity were due to the attack strength changes in the programming, not, strictly speaking, volume. Mod Wheel data is intended to be applied in a continuous, expressive fashion. This has been discussed numerous times on the Northernsounds site. If you do a search under my name you should find many threads on the subject. You will also find more detailed information on controller use in the GPO manual and on the Garritan site.

    One other thing: The new optional X-Custom folder in the update does allow the user to assign velocity to volume for Expressive instruments, but at a considerable loss in realism. I don’t recommend it but a user can force the Expressive instruments to function like an ordinary, velocity = volume library using the assignable slider. Be aware that a bug has been recently discovered in the player that often makes X-Custom instruments malfunction when saving and reloading song files in a sequencer. Native Instruments is aware of this bug and is working to fix it.

    Tom

  8. #8

    Re: Has anyone tried GPO out on the new iMac G5?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Hopkins
    orijames,

    If I’m not misinterpreting your description it sounds like you may have misunderstood one of the basic principles of the library. GPO is not like other libraries in its use of velocity data for most of its instruments (which is why you can’t just use the library, you must read the documentation thoroughly).

    Briefly, there are two types of instruments in GPO: Expressive and Percussive. Percussive instruments, like piano, string pizz, and most percussion, use the standard velocity = volume model. On the other hand, Expressive instruments use Mod Wheel (cc#1) = volume/timbre. Velocity does not control volume, it controls attack strength. Any differences you heard by manipulating velocity were due to the attack strength changes in the programming, not, strictly speaking, volume. Mod Wheel data is intended to be applied in a continuous, expressive fashion. This has been discussed numerous times on the Northernsounds site. If you do a search under my name you should find many threads on the subject. You will also find more detailed information on controller use in the GPO manual and on the Garritan site.

    One other thing: The new optional X-Custom folder in the update does allow the user to assign velocity to volume for Expressive instruments, but at a considerable loss in realism. I don’t recommend it but a user can force the Expressive instruments to function like an ordinary, velocity = volume library using the assignable slider. Be aware that a bug has been recently discovered in the player that often makes X-Custom instruments malfunction when saving and reloading song files in a sequencer. Native Instruments is aware of this bug and is working to fix it.

    Tom
    Tom - I have looked at the documentation and it does not tell me how, with the "change velocity" command of DP4, I can change the volume of the string, brass and most of the woodwind ensembles (the "change velocity" command in DP will, oddly enough, affect the velocity of the bassoon ensembles but not the flute ensembles) in GOP. If you know something I don't know I would appreciate your telling me. What I want to do is the following: I want to use Digital Performer to control the volume of all instruments in GOP, just as I can now very easily control the volume of all the instruments in Virtuoso 2000 and Proteus 2000 and Kawaii K4r. If this cannot be done I would appreciate a simple yes or no so that I can make other plans. You are the last of many people, including Native Instruments, GOP, MOTU, Computers in Music in S.F. where I got DP and GOP + the Mac G5 to go with it, and Gary Garritan, none of whom seem to be able to help me with this problem. Someone at Native Instruments told me that I should be able to achieve my desired end with the full version of GOP (I have 1.10.04 installed) If this the case, I would certainly consider upgrading to that, but I must be certain it can do what I would like it to do. Your (or anyone else's) thougts on this matter will be much appreciated. Thx OJ

  9. #9

    Re: Has anyone tried GPO out on the new iMac G5?

    OJ,

    Well, it’s unclear to me why you seem only willing to use the “change velocity” command in DP. “Change velocity” is the wrong controller to use for Expressive instrument volume changes with this library. GPO (not GOP ) is different from your rack modules. It is not designed to operate the same way as your modules for volume control. For now, I’ll just accept that you are, for whatever reason, unwilling to use the library as designed.

    OK, that leaves us with the X-Custom folder that I mentioned in the previous reply. Even though there is presently a “saving” bug in the player for X-Custom instruments you can still load and test them to see if they do what you desire. You can set the player’s assignable slider to be controlled with velocity. That should make the instruments function essentially similar to your rack modules (but, as I said, at a great loss in realism compared to mod wheel control). You must be using the latest update of GPO. You must also separately download and install the X-Custom folder.

    I’m also not sure what you mean by the “full version” of GPO. There is only one version of GPO. There is a full version of the Kontakt sampler and maybe that’s what you have in mind. Can Kontakt give you another way (in addition to the X-Custom folder) of getting the library to match the controllers of your rack modules? Yes, you can re-program anything you like in Kontakt but I don’t want to give you the impression that re-working the programming for all of the Expressive instruments would be easy. You would need to become very proficient at Kontakt programming and actually re-engineer the instruments one by one. If I were you I’d try to make the X-Custom idea work first before diving into this rather involved area.

    The best advice I can give with the standard Expressive instruments in the library is to encourage you to use mod wheel data to control volume. That’s the tool for the job in GPO. That’s how it’s designed. Good luck.

    Tom

  10. #10

    Re: Has anyone tried GPO out on the new iMac G5?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Hopkins
    OJ,

    Well, it’s unclear to me why you seem only willing to use the “change velocity” command in DP. “Change velocity” is the wrong controller to use for Expressive instrument volume changes with this library. GPO (not GOP ) is different from your rack modules. It is not designed to operate the same way as your modules for volume control. For now, I’ll just accept that you are, for whatever reason, unwilling to use the library as designed.

    OK, that leaves us with the X-Custom folder that I mentioned in the previous reply. Even though there is presently a “saving” bug in the player for X-Custom instruments you can still load and test them to see if they do what you desire. You can set the player’s assignable slider to be controlled with velocity. That should make the instruments function essentially similar to your rack modules (but, as I said, at a great loss in realism compared to mod wheel control). You must be using the latest update of GPO. You must also separately download and install the X-Custom folder.

    I’m also not sure what you mean by the “full version” of GPO. There is only one version of GPO. There is a full version of the Kontakt sampler and maybe that’s what you have in mind. Can Kontakt give you another way (in addition to the X-Custom folder) of getting the library to match the controllers of your rack modules? Yes, you can re-program anything you like in Kontakt but I don’t want to give you the impression that re-working the programming for all of the Expressive instruments would be easy. You would need to become very proficient at Kontakt programming and actually re-engineer the instruments one by one. If I were you I’d try to make the X-Custom idea work first before diving into this rather involved area.

    The best advice I can give with the standard Expressive instruments in the library is to encourage you to use mod wheel data to control volume. That’s the tool for the job in GPO. That’s how it’s designed. Good luck.

    Tom
    Tom- I am not willing to use the mod wheel to adjust the volume of the instruments in GOP because it is an extremely cumbersome way of going about things (as is automating the mixing board in DP). For example, if you want to place an accent on a note, using DP, you simply select the note, increase its volume by, say, 50% and, voila, you have an accent. Likewise, if you have a passage that it is too loud or too soft, you simply select it and add or subtract the volume to bring it in line with the rest of the composition. You can also easily make a passage play from dimuendo to crescendo or crescendo to dimuendo by simply selecting it in DP. I know there is probably a preferred way of using GOP, but if it cannot operate with DP the way I am accustomed to working with DP, GOP is not going to be of much use to me as I consider DP to be the best sequencer on the market today, and if GOP cannot work with it as efficiently as it does with my my old sound modules, I will have to look around for other software programs that might be of more use to me - a pity because GOP has such wonderful sounds. I think part of the problem in communication here is that you are apparently thinking of GOP as an instrument (a stand-alone instead of a plug-in) that can be played as a violinist, for example, would play the violin, but using the mod wheel to alter volume as he plays. But I am looking at things from the point of view of a composer of pieces for virtual instruments, who would like to edit things after the composition has been written by electronic means (after all, we are no longer living in the 18th century). My original complaint was that DP apparently cannot control the volume of the ensembles in GOP (i.e the strings, which is a great drawback as the strings are the most prominent in any orchestral composition). I would conclude that DP will not work with GOP in this respect, but I know that the "change velocity' command in DP will affect the volume of the bassoon ensembles in DP (but not the flutes) so it seems that it should also work with the strings. If I have not clearly explained my position to you, please let me know and I will try to be even more specific. I have brought this problem to the attention of Computers in Music in S.F. where I bought GOP, DP and my Mac G5 and they are also stymied. If it is the case that the combination of DPO and GOP will not work as efficiently as I am accustomed to with DP and my older sound modules I would appreciate your frankness in telling me so and then I will be able to look around for other possibilities - such as dumping DP or GOP. At the moment I feel I can't proceed much further with my projects.
    Your input is always appreciated. Thx OJ

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