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Topic: I'm back with my shotgun this time

  1. #1

    I'm back with my shotgun this time

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    I was wondering why they suddenly adjusted the exit polls in Ohio. I now consider the Republican party an enemy of the state. Rot in hell all of you.

    Article by Greg Palast:

    Kerry won. Here's the facts.

    I know you don't want to hear it. You can't face one more hung chad. But I don't have a choice. As a journalist examining that messy sausage called American democracy, it's my job to tell you who got the most votes in the deciding states. Tuesday, in Ohio and New Mexico, it was John Kerry.

    Most voters in Ohio thought they were voting for Kerry. CNN's exit poll showed Kerry beating Bush among Ohio women by 53 percent to 47 percent. Kerry also defeated Bush among Ohio's male voters 51 percent to 49 percent. Unless a third gender voted in Ohio, Kerry took the state.

    So what's going on here? Answer: the exit polls are accurate. Pollsters ask, "Who did you vote for?" Unfortunately, they don't ask the crucial, question, "Was your vote counted?" The voters don't know.

    Here's why. Although the exit polls show that most voters in Ohio punched cards for Kerry-Edwards, thousands of these votes were simply not recorded. This was predictable and it was predicted. [See TomPaine.com, "An Election Spoiled Rotten," November 1.]

    Once again, at the heart of the Ohio uncounted vote game are, I'm sorry to report, hanging chads and pregnant chads, plus some other ballot tricks old and new.

    The election in Ohio was not decided by the voters but by something called "spoilage." Typically in the United States, about 3 percent of the vote is voided, just thrown away, not recorded. When the bobble-head boobs on the tube tell you Ohio or any state was won by 51 percent to 49 percent, don't you believe it ... it has never happened in the United States, because the total never reaches a neat 100 percent. The television totals simply subtract out the spoiled vote.

    And not all vote spoil equally. Most of those votes, say every official report, come from African American and minority precincts. (To learn more, click here.)

    We saw this in Florida in 2000. Exit polls showed Gore with a plurality of at least 50,000, but it didn't match the official count. That's because the official, Secretary of State Katherine Harris, excluded 179,855 spoiled votes. In Florida, as in Ohio, most of these votes lost were cast on punch cards where the hole wasn't punched through completely-leaving a 'hanging chad,'-or was punched extra times. Whose cards were discarded? Expert statisticians investigating spoilage for the government calculated that 54 percent of the ballots thrown in the dumpster were cast by black folks. (To read the report from the U.S. Civil Rights Commission, click here.)

    And here's the key: Florida is terribly typical. The majority of ballots thrown out (there will be nearly 2 million tossed out from Tuesday's election) will have been cast by African American and other minority citizens.

    So here we go again. Or, here we don't go again. Because unlike last time, Democrats aren't even asking Ohio to count these cards with the not-quite-punched holes (called "undervotes" in the voting biz).

    Ohio is one of the last states in America to still use the vote-spoiling punch-card machines. And the Secretary of State of Ohio, J. Kenneth Blackwell, wrote before the election, “the possibility of a close election with punch cards as the state’s primary voting device invites a Florida-like calamity.”

    But this week, Blackwell, a rabidly partisan Republican, has warmed up to the result of sticking with machines that have a habit of eating Democratic votes. When asked if he feared being this year's Katherine Harris, Blackwell noted that Ms. Fix-it's efforts landed her a seat in Congress.

    Exactly how many votes were lost to spoilage this time? Blackwell's office, notably, won't say, though the law requires it be reported. Hmm. But we know that last time, the total of Ohio votes discarded reached a democracy-damaging 1.96 percent. The machines produced their typical loss-that's 110,000 votes-overwhelmingly Democratic.

    The Impact Of Challenges

    First and foremost, Kerry was had by chads. But the Democrat wasn't punched out by punch cards alone. There were also the 'challenges.' That's a polite word for the Republican Party of Ohio's use of an old Ku Klux Klan technique: the attempt to block thousands of voters of color at the polls. In Ohio, Wisconsin and Florida, the GOP laid plans for poll workers to ambush citizens under arcane laws-almost never used-allowing party-designated poll watchers to finger individual voters and demand they be denied a ballot. The Ohio courts were horrified and federal law prohibits targeting of voters where race is a factor in the challenge. But our Supreme Court was prepared to let Republicans stand in the voting booth door.

    In the end, the challenges were not overwhelming, but they were there. Many apparently resulted in voters getting these funky "provisional" ballots-a kind of voting placebo-which may or may not be counted. Blackwell estimates there were 175,000; Democrats say 250,000. Pick your number. But as challenges were aimed at minorities, no one doubts these are, again, overwhelmingly Democratic. Count them up, add in the spoiled punch cards (easy to tally with the human eye in a recount), and the totals begin to match the exit polls; and, golly, you've got yourself a new president. Remember, Bush won by 136,483 votes in Ohio.

    Enchanted State's Enchanted Vote

    Now, on to New Mexico, where a Kerry plurality-if all votes are counted-is more obvious still. Before the election, in TomPaine.com, I wrote, "John Kerry is down by several thousand votes in New Mexico, though not one ballot has yet been counted."

    How did that happen? It's the spoilage, stupid; and the provisional ballots.

    CNN said George Bush took New Mexico by 11,620 votes. Again, the network total added up to that miraculous, and non-existent, '100 percent' of ballots cast.

    New Mexico reported in the last race a spoilage rate of 2.68 percent, votes lost almost entirely in Hispanic, Native American and poor precincts-Democratic turf. From Tuesday's vote, assuming the same ballot-loss rate, we can expect to see 18,000 ballots in the spoilage bin.

    Spoilage has a very Democratic look in New Mexico. Hispanic voters in the Enchanted State, who voted more than two to one for Kerry, are five times as likely to have their vote spoil as a white voter. Counting these uncounted votes would easily overtake the Bush 'plurality.'

    Already, the election-bending effects of spoilage are popping up in the election stats, exactly where we'd expect them: in heavily Hispanic areas controlled by Republican elections officials. Chaves County, in the "Little Texas" area of New Mexico, has a 44 percent Hispanic population, plus African Americans and Native Americans, yet George Bush "won" there 68 percent to 31 percent.

    I spoke with Chaves' Republican county clerk before the election, and he told me that this huge spoilage rate among Hispanics simply indicated that such people simply can't make up their minds on the choice of candidate for president. Oddly, these brown people drive across the desert to register their indecision in a voting booth.

    Now, let's add in the effect on the New Mexico tally of provisional ballots.

    "They were handing them out like candy," Albuquerque journalist Renee Blake reported of provisional ballots. About 20,000 were given out. Who got them?

    Santiago Juarez who ran the "Faithful Citizenship" program for the Catholic Archdiocese in New Mexico, told me that "his" voters, poor Hispanics, whom he identified as solid Kerry supporters, were handed the iffy provisional ballots. Hispanics were given provisional ballots, rather than the countable kind "almost religiously," he said, at polling stations when there was the least question about a voter's identification. Some voters, Santiago said, were simply turned away.

    Your Kerry Victory Party

    So we can call Ohio and New Mexico for John Kerry-if we count all the votes.

    But that won't happen. Despite the Democratic Party's pledge, the leadership this time gave in to racial disenfranchisement once again. Why? No doubt, the Democrats know darn well that counting all the spoiled and provisional ballots will require the cooperation of Ohio's Secretary of State, Blackwell. He will ultimately decide which spoiled and provisional ballots get tallied. Blackwell, hankering to step into Kate Harris' political pumps, is unlikely to permit anything close to a full count. Also, Democratic leadership knows darn well the media would punish the party for demanding a full count.

    What now? Kerry won, so hold your victory party. But make sure the shades are down: it may be become illegal to demand a full vote count under PATRIOT Act III.

    I used to write a column for the Guardian papers in London. Several friends have asked me if I will again leave the country. In light of the failure-a second time-to count all the votes, that won't be necessary. My country has left me.

    Greg Palast, contributing editor to Harper's magazine, investigated the manipulation of the vote for BBC Television's Newsnight. The documentary, "Bush Family Fortunes," based on his New York Times bestseller, The Best Democracy Money Can Buy, has been released this month on DVD.

  2. #2

    Re: I'm back with my shotgun this time

    Let's not, as I've said a dozen times already, forget about the blackbox voting.

  3. #3

    Re: I'm back with my shotgun this time

    Perhaps a county by county comparison of votes vs exit poll results would be good. Perhaps too late for this round but this needs fixing. I say, "Black box" system that prints the ballot out and you drop it in a box. Any problems, count the very readable paper ballots.

    Anyway, one question. What is with people not being competent enought to punch the card properly and look at it before turning it in to make sure there are not hanging chads. After 2000, there is no excuse. Enlighten me on this one.
    Otherwise, I'm tempted to repeat the old axiom that if you cant get it together to use the voting system, are you really up to the task of picking our leaders.

    Also, don't forget the fraud from the other side of the isle. It might cancel out some of this but we will never know until we fix the system properly. Its not exclusive to Republicans to cheat. There were lots of suspicious things on both sides.
    Seems like a proportional electoral system would be in order too if the states would pass that individually.

    Also, lots of red on that map. There was a trend towards what was decided and I don't think that was all rigged.

  4. #4

    Re: I'm back with my shotgun this time

    I knew that article would surface here sooner or later.

    There are so many logic flaws in that article I don't know where to begin. For example, if a "spoiled" ballot was cast with holes punched for both Kerry and Bush, are we just supposed to give it to Kerry since it was in a minority district? Is that really what you want?

    As for late absentee ballots and provisional ballots, I've heard elsewhere many reports of the same happening to Republicans. You guys somehow assume that ALL "spoiled" ballots would go your way. And to support this, you say that ballots cast in your stronghold districts are more likely to be "undervotes" or "overvotes". Well why is that? Does that mean a higher percentage of Democrats are too incompetent to cast a valid ballot by not punching two holes, or by punching at least one?

    Have you never heard of a "margin of error" in a poll like the exit polls? It was a close race, after all.

    And I thought you guys were always complaining that it should be the popular vote that takes it. So what now? Do you really think almost 4 million votes were "spoiled"? Or are you simply willing to change your tune any way you have to as long as you win?

    Oh, and don't be so sure the minorities are as much in your pocket as you believe. For example, here in Oklahoma, 60% of all voters voted for Bush, but 74% of latinos voted for him. Yes, that's right. A minority group actually supported Bush MORE than the general population as a whole!

    Admit it, you guys are losing the hearts and minds because you are so mean-spirited and irrational.

    On another note, I find it intereseting that Kerry won 90% of the vote in the homicide capitol of the United States (which also happens to be the federal capitol as well). If we want to start drawing conclusions based on the demographics of each candidate's support base, there's a great place to start.

    Now if you're going to sit here all day long complaining and calling your own country "miserable" and such, we don't need you. Don't let the door hit you on the way out.

    Speaking of which, specifically what is it you hope to gain by moving to Canada? Precisely what is so unendurable here that would be allieviated by moving northward? Okay, the Patriot Act, I can understand, but what else? Are you going to have to admit that the only real difference there is that you'll be able to enjoy more of the fruits of your neighbor's labors?

  5. #5

    Re: I'm back with my shotgun this time

    Quote Originally Posted by Ernstinen
    God, that's sickening. I keep wondering how the exit polls got it so wrong, like the Zogby poll that Robgb posted. I never thought it would come down to the votes cast vs. the votes counted. Bastards. Rot in hell is right.

    Well, look on the bright side (as I'm dancing and tossing daisy petals): At least I can legally purchase an assault rifle now. And my wife will get a big tax break, being the high-powered exec she is. Viva corporate America!

    FYI guys, since I'm pretty much alone in here also... You could legally purchase an "assault weapon" before the ban ended. The ban just made it so you couldn't have more than 2 combinations of certain items on the rifle, such as bayonet lugs, folding stocks, etc. You could buy them if they were made before the ban. It also banned any more production of high capacity magazines, although it was still legal to buy them during the ban as long as they were made before then.
    My sister works in a children's Hospital in a large city and sees many injuries caused by stupid people with guns. She doesn't, however, see any school shootings where someone was stabbed with the bayonet, the folding stock, shot by the grenade launcher, "flashed" by the muzzle flash hider, etc. She also is well aware, as everybody should be, that idiot people with handguns are the ones that do the crime, not people with "assault weapons".
    Incidentally, the end of the ban DOES NOT allow fully automatic weapons like most "anti-gun" people assume. It changes nothing about that law. Crime was not and will not be affected by the ban/end of the ban, for the above obvious reasons.

  6. #6

    Re: I'm back with my shotgun this time

    I forgot to mention.... Deer season starts today in North Dakota, and I will be using my so called "assault weapon" to provide food for my family the way it was intended, not by eating cows from some slaughter house. I don't think I'll use the bayonet or the grenade launcher to get the deer either.

  7. #7

    Re: I'm back with my shotgun this time

    Quote Originally Posted by Brady Wright
    Now if you're going to sit here all day long complaining and calling your own country "miserable" and such, we don't need you. Don't let the door hit you on the way out.

    Speaking of which, specifically what is it you hope to gain by moving to Canada? Precisely what is so unendurable here that would be allieviated by moving northward? Okay, the Patriot Act, I can understand, but what else? Are you going to have to admit that the only real difference there is that you'll be able to enjoy more of the fruits of your neighbor's labors?
    Amen to that Brady. They can join the Baldwin family that threatens to move every time they don't get their way. After all, actors act for a living. Should we take anyone in Hollywood seriously? They play make believe and get paid for it!

  8. #8

    Re: I'm back with my shotgun this time

    No Brady,

    The Ultimate Felony Against Democracy
    By Thom Hartmann

    Thusday 4 November 2004

    The hot story in the Blogosphere is that the "erroneous" exit polls that showed Kerry carrying Florida and Ohio (among other states) weren't erroneous at all - it was the numbers produced by paperless voting machines that were wrong, and Kerry actually won. As more and more analysis is done of what may (or may not) be the most massive election fraud in the history of the world, however, it's critical that we keep the largest issue at the forefront at all time: Why are We The People allowing private, for-profit corporations, answerable only to their officers and boards of directors, and loyal only to agendas and politicians that will enhance their profitability, to handle our votes?

    Maybe Florida went for Kerry, maybe for Bush. Over time - and through the efforts of some very motivated investigative reporters - we may well find out (Bev Harris of www.blackboxvoting.org just filed what may be the largest Freedom of Information Act [FOIA} filing in history), and bloggers and investigative reporters are discovering an odd discrepancy in exit polls being largely accurate in paper-ballot states and oddly inaccurate in touch-screen electronic voting states Even raw voter analyses are showing extreme oddities in touch-screen-run Florida, and eagle-eyed bloggers are finding that news organizations are retroactively altering their exit polls to coincide with what the machines ultimately said.

    But in all the discussion about voting machines, let's never forget the concept of the commons, because this usurpation is the ultimate felony committed by conservatives this year.

    At the founding of this nation, we decided that there were important places to invest our tax (then tariff) dollars, and those were the things that had to do with the overall "life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness" of all of us. Over time, these commons - in which we all make tax investments and for which we all hold ultimate responsibility - have come to include our police and fire services; our military and defense; our roads and skyways; our air, waters and national parks; and the safety of our food and drugs.

    But the most important of all the commons in which we've invested our hard-earned tax dollars is our government itself. It's owned by us, run by us (through our elected representatives), answerable to us, and most directly responsible for stewardship of our commons.

    And the commons through which we regulate the commons of our government is our vote.

    About two years ago, I wrote a story for these pages, "If You Want To Win An Election, Just Control The Voting Machines," that exposed how Senator Chuck Hagel had, before stepping down and running for the U.S. Senate in Nebraska, been the head of the voting machine company (now ES&S) that had just computerized Nebraska's vote. The Washington Post (1/13/1997) said Hagel's "Senate victory against an incumbent Democratic governor was the major Republican upset in the November election." According to Bev Harris, Hagel won virtually every demographic group, including many largely black communities that had never before voted Republican. Hagel was the first Republican in 24 years to win a Senate seat in Nebraska, nearly all on unauditable machines he had just sold the state. And in all probability, Hagel run for President in 2008.

    In another, later article I wrote at the request of MoveOn.org and which they mailed to their millions of members, I noted that in Georgia - another state that went all-electronic - "USA Today reported on Nov. 3, 2002, 'In Georgia, an Atlanta Journal-Constitution poll shows Democratic Sen. Max Cleland with a 49to-44% lead over Republican Rep. Saxby Chambliss. 'Cox News Service, based in Atlanta, reported just after the election (Nov. 7) that, "Pollsters may have goofed" because 'Republican Rep. Saxby Chambliss defeated incumbent Democratic Sen. Max Cleland by a margin of 53 to 46 percent. The Hotline, a political news service, recalled a series of polls Wednesday showing that Chambliss had been ahead in none of them.'" Nearly every vote in the state was on an electronic machine with no audit trail.

    In the years since those first articles appeared, Bev Harris has published her book on the subject ("Black Box Voting"), including the revelation of her finding the notorious "Rob Georgia" folder on Diebold's FTP site just after Cleland's loss there; Lynn Landes has done some groundbreaking research, particularly her new investigation of the Associated Press, as have Rebecca Mercuri and David Dill. There's a new video out on the topic, Votergate, available at www.votergate.tv.

    Congressman Rush Holt introduced a bill into Congress requiring a voter-verified paper ballot be produced by all electronic voting machines, and it's been co-sponsored by a majority of the members of the House of Representatives. The two-year battle fought by Dennis Hastert and Tom DeLay to keep it from coming to a vote, thus insuring that there will be no possible audit of the votes of about a third of the 2004 electorate, has fueled the flames of conspiracy theorists convinced Republican ideologues - now known to be willing to lie in television advertising - would extend their "ends justifies the means" morality to stealing the vote "for the better good of the country" they think single-party Republican rule will bring.

    Most important, though, the rallying cry of the emerging "honest vote" movement must become: Get Corporations Out Of Our Vote!

    Why have we let corporations into our polling places, locations so sacred to democracy that in many states even international election monitors and reporters are banned? Why are we allowing corporations to exclusively handle our vote, in a secret and totally invisible way? Particularly a private corporation founded, in one case, by a family that believes the Bible should replace the Constitution; in another case run by one of Ohio's top Republicans; and in another case partly owned by Saudi investors?

    Of all the violations of the commons - all of the crimes against We The People and against democracy in our great and historic republic - this is the greatest. Our vote is too important to outsource to private corporations.

    It's time that the USA - like most of the rest of the world - returns to paper ballots, counted by hand by civil servants (our employees) under the watchful eye of the party faithful. Even if it takes two weeks to count the vote, and we have to just go, until then, with the exit polls of the news agencies. It worked just fine for nearly 200 years in the USA, and it can work again.

    When I lived in Germany, they took the vote the same way most of the world does - people fill in hand-marked ballots, which are hand-counted by civil servants taking a week off from their regular jobs, watched over by volunteer representatives of the political parties. It's totally clean, and easily audited. And even though it takes a week or more to count the vote (and costs nothing more than a bit of overtime pay for civil servants), the German people know the election results the night the polls close because the news media's exit polls, for two generations, have never been more than a tenth of a percent off.

    We could have saved billions that have instead been handed over to ES&S, Diebold, and other private corporations.

    Or, if we must have machines, let's have them owned by local governments, maintained and programmed by civil servants answerable to We The People, using open-source code and disconnected from modems, that produce a voter-verified printed ballot, with all results published on a precinct-by-precinct basis.

    As Thomas Paine wrote at this nation's founding, "The right of voting for representatives is the primary right by which all other rights are protected. To take away this right is to reduce a man to slavery."

    Only when We The People reclaim the commons of our vote can we again be confident in the integrity of our electoral process in the world's oldest and most powerful democratic republic.

    Thom Hartmann (thom at thomhartmann.com) is a Project Censored Award-winning best-selling author and host of a nationally syndicated daily progressive talk show. www.thomhartmann.com His most recent books are "The Last Hours of Ancient Sunlight," "Unequal Protection: The Rise of Corporate Dominance and the Theft of Human Rights," "We The People: A Call To Take Back America," and "What Would Jefferson Do?: A Return To Democracy."

  9. #9

    Re: I'm back with my shotgun this time

    Maybe I'm missing something here, but first you say the election was stolen because Kerry really won Ohio (who used paper ballots with chads), now you're saying the election was stolen by paperless voting machines? So which is it?

    And are you aware that in Ohio, the "get out the vote" busses that had been sponsored by the Republican Party to help people who otherwise could not get out of thier houses and vote had their tires slashed? Who do you suppose did that? Do you think that's right? Do you think that's ethical? Do you think that may have skewed election results? Would you be screaming this from the rooftops if it had happened to one of Michael Moore's busses? Or do you only care about foul play when it hurts your side, but turn a blind eye to it when it helps you get what you want?

    And while we're talking about exit polls, here are the exit polls from Ohio:

    52% of males voted Bush, and exactly 50% of females voted Bush. So exactly how were the exit polls in conflict with the voting results so as to indicate something shady? To borrow from Mr. Palast, unless there was a third gender voting in Ohio, that adds up to a Bush win.

    But you people won't listen to reason. That is made clear by the fact you think ballots with no vote should be counted arbitrarily for Kerry, and that ballot with votes for both candidates should likewise be awarded to Kerry. You guys are so dishonest with even yourselves that it's amazing. Would you honestly support the idea of assuming such a ballot was for Bush if it was cast in a GOP-majority precinct? Of course not. But then again, you guys aren't known for your consistency.

  10. #10

    Re: I'm back with my shotgun this time

    In the counties of Ohio that used computer based voting with no paper trail, the results did not match the exit polls. In the counties of Ohio that used paperr based voting, the results matched the exit polls. Or so I'm told.

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